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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6647285" data-attributes="member: 82106">I disagree. In practical play what works best is knowing what an action SHOULD be able to accomplish. Having plenty of examples gives you a good feel for that, and with its arrays of powers to gauge by that is quite easy in 4e. This is helped by the fact that every class is actually designed around scaled power uses, so this will work well for all characters of all classes. You're not RESTRICTED by this, you are empowered. One of the keys to PLAYER empowerment is having a really good idea of what some improvisation is likely to accomplish. Knowing that I can decide to go for it. The 5e situation is that a fighter player really has no good idea what pulling some stunt will accomplish in detail. Will it knock the enemy prone? Will it stun him? Will it do more damage than a regular repeatable attack? How hard should it be to do something more effective? The DM is left with less to go by.Yes, but what is the shade of difference between very easy and easy. With 4e its clear, I have level 1 medium, and level 15 medium, I know instantly that the level 15 DC is meant for PCs of levels 8-17 (with it being challenging for a level 8 and trivial for a level 17). Is a 'nearly impossible' DC is 5e meant for a level 1 PC or a level 15 one? I have no idea. 4e makes it quite simple to know the sorts of dangers that the game believes will be appropriate for each level of character, and then gives you easy/medium/hard DCs so you can quickly vary things as needed, providing equal challenge for untrained/trained/highly focused characters. 5e's DC system is strangely anemic IMHO and lacks a number of nice features of 4e's.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6647285, member: 82106"] I disagree. In practical play what works best is knowing what an action SHOULD be able to accomplish. Having plenty of examples gives you a good feel for that, and with its arrays of powers to gauge by that is quite easy in 4e. This is helped by the fact that every class is actually designed around scaled power uses, so this will work well for all characters of all classes. You're not RESTRICTED by this, you are empowered. One of the keys to PLAYER empowerment is having a really good idea of what some improvisation is likely to accomplish. Knowing that I can decide to go for it. The 5e situation is that a fighter player really has no good idea what pulling some stunt will accomplish in detail. Will it knock the enemy prone? Will it stun him? Will it do more damage than a regular repeatable attack? How hard should it be to do something more effective? The DM is left with less to go by. Yes, but what is the shade of difference between very easy and easy. With 4e its clear, I have level 1 medium, and level 15 medium, I know instantly that the level 15 DC is meant for PCs of levels 8-17 (with it being challenging for a level 8 and trivial for a level 17). Is a 'nearly impossible' DC is 5e meant for a level 1 PC or a level 15 one? I have no idea. 4e makes it quite simple to know the sorts of dangers that the game believes will be appropriate for each level of character, and then gives you easy/medium/hard DCs so you can quickly vary things as needed, providing equal challenge for untrained/trained/highly focused characters. 5e's DC system is strangely anemic IMHO and lacks a number of nice features of 4e's. [/QUOTE]

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