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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6650064" data-attributes="member: 82106">In my hack I got rid of attribute increases, I just never liked the whole &quot;lets change the fundamental RP attributes of your character&quot; that much, though you can still get a bonus at levels 7 and 16. Progression also only goes to 20. Assuming +1/tier magic items and the fact that pretty much no permanent bonuses outside level, proficiency, and ability stack means you can get 10 for levels, 2 for ability score increase (but all chars are capped at +5 anyway, so +1 is typical) and 3 for everything else (6 if you weren't proficient starting out and got it later). So you won't get more than about +14 over 20 levels, which is only 5 points more than 5e grants. One of the problems with 5e's stunted bonus growth is that it really is impossible for most characters to get to the point where they can't be outperformed by a high roll by a much weaker opponent. Even a STR 20 barbarian can't win more than about 90% of his arm-wrestling contests against ordinary strength level 1 figures. Its a little peculiar when he's level 20 and some random local kid beats him an appreciable fraction of the time.Another consequence of this is the old &quot;why are they hiring heroes&quot; question. If the king's guards can kill the dragon, is there really a need for the heroes to ride in and save the day? Oddly enough its 5e that needs levels 21-30, far more than 4e does, which handles this point quite convincingly.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6650064, member: 82106"] In my hack I got rid of attribute increases, I just never liked the whole "lets change the fundamental RP attributes of your character" that much, though you can still get a bonus at levels 7 and 16. Progression also only goes to 20. Assuming +1/tier magic items and the fact that pretty much no permanent bonuses outside level, proficiency, and ability stack means you can get 10 for levels, 2 for ability score increase (but all chars are capped at +5 anyway, so +1 is typical) and 3 for everything else (6 if you weren't proficient starting out and got it later). So you won't get more than about +14 over 20 levels, which is only 5 points more than 5e grants. One of the problems with 5e's stunted bonus growth is that it really is impossible for most characters to get to the point where they can't be outperformed by a high roll by a much weaker opponent. Even a STR 20 barbarian can't win more than about 90% of his arm-wrestling contests against ordinary strength level 1 figures. Its a little peculiar when he's level 20 and some random local kid beats him an appreciable fraction of the time. Another consequence of this is the old "why are they hiring heroes" question. If the king's guards can kill the dragon, is there really a need for the heroes to ride in and save the day? Oddly enough its 5e that needs levels 21-30, far more than 4e does, which handles this point quite convincingly. [/QUOTE]

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