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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6650094" data-attributes="member: 82106">5e is basically a 10 level game in terms of progression that has been divided up into 20 levels where half of them are pretty meaningless. They really could just make it a 10 level system with a +1 to one ability score at each level, a 1/2 level bonus, and stuff like spell slots refactored slightly to correspond to caster level, etc. There just isn't a lot of real progression in this game. To preserve SOME of the sense of D&amp;D style progression they've made hit points scale up at about 150% 4e's rate (a CR 20 5e monster has about 300, a level 30 4e monster has about the same, while nominal 4e 20th level standard is 186). PC hit points likewise scale faster (they start a bit lower but 20th level PCs can quite easily have 200 hit points, a 20th level 4 Warden won't touch that). You could basically achieve the same sort of 4e game by playing heroic and maybe some of paragon tier, lets say to level 15. At that point the toughest standard orcs are 9 levels below you, so they are just barely irrelevant (minionized at 5 levels below, now obsolete minions). Enemies you fought at level 5 can still hit you at level 10 and be some threat if you were to use them en-mass, you'd minionize them for efficiency and allow for a LOT of them to appear. A BIG threat for a level 5 PC, a level 9 Solo Monster, its still a serious monster for the level 10 guy, and a substantial monster if recast as a level 15 or so Elite monster for the level 15 PCs. So honestly, I don't think that 5e is really offering something you couldn't get with earlier editions. Its just offering that as the default. If you want bigger scaling though, you're kind of SOL with 5e. With 4e you just play on up into Epic, you get all you want, orcs become bugs that you can squish under foot.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6650094, member: 82106"] 5e is basically a 10 level game in terms of progression that has been divided up into 20 levels where half of them are pretty meaningless. They really could just make it a 10 level system with a +1 to one ability score at each level, a 1/2 level bonus, and stuff like spell slots refactored slightly to correspond to caster level, etc. There just isn't a lot of real progression in this game. To preserve SOME of the sense of D&D style progression they've made hit points scale up at about 150% 4e's rate (a CR 20 5e monster has about 300, a level 30 4e monster has about the same, while nominal 4e 20th level standard is 186). PC hit points likewise scale faster (they start a bit lower but 20th level PCs can quite easily have 200 hit points, a 20th level 4 Warden won't touch that). You could basically achieve the same sort of 4e game by playing heroic and maybe some of paragon tier, lets say to level 15. At that point the toughest standard orcs are 9 levels below you, so they are just barely irrelevant (minionized at 5 levels below, now obsolete minions). Enemies you fought at level 5 can still hit you at level 10 and be some threat if you were to use them en-mass, you'd minionize them for efficiency and allow for a LOT of them to appear. A BIG threat for a level 5 PC, a level 9 Solo Monster, its still a serious monster for the level 10 guy, and a substantial monster if recast as a level 15 or so Elite monster for the level 15 PCs. So honestly, I don't think that 5e is really offering something you couldn't get with earlier editions. Its just offering that as the default. If you want bigger scaling though, you're kind of SOL with 5e. With 4e you just play on up into Epic, you get all you want, orcs become bugs that you can squish under foot. [/QUOTE]

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