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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Erechel" data-source="post: 6650206" data-attributes="member: 6784868">Of course having proficiency/ expertise is better than not having them. That's the whole point of having Proficiency or Expertise, Tony. But the Fighter can do everything very well, without having to waste resources with it. The Feats/ Ability Score Increase of the fighter are his uniqueness. Maybe you are not the "best" at everything, but you are reliable, and can count with him. And also, have you read the NAME of the class? Is Fighter. You are the best at fighting,  (and please, please you can't say that you can "only make base attacks", that's plain false: you have several "special" attacks listed in the PHB, let alone the DMG; grapple, pushing, tripping, etc.; and we aren't counting the Battle Master tactics, that could be modeled -as said in the DMG and Improvising Actions) as base attacks by the rules but substracting th Superiority Dice) not interacting with people.And YES, anyone can make a Skill Check. This is the whole point of Skill Checks. You do not have to have a Power to made one: that is the bias of 4th edition players. You only have to try, and apply modifiers. And because BA, a +1 is a significant modifier, so higher stats count a lot, even if you aren't using feats. And, with Remarkable Athlete, any non-trained physical SC has a +2, not +1, as is rounded up (3/2= 1,5): is equal as being trained from 1st to 4th level. Add the higher scores. IN EVERY CHECK. It is hardly insignificant, both in or out combat. Even if the SC isn't covered by a skill at all: you are better than average in every way possible. Remember the most powerful weapons? they are +3 (legendary). Off course, for certain skills, the rogues are superior (as they have Expertise). But the rogues are (and always were) the skill monkeys, and their expertise hardly cover every physical check possible (you have to have proficiency with them, RA covers the non-trained spectrum).  By core, you gain proficiency as a 4th level to Athletics, Acrobatics, Seight of Hand, Stealth, and sometimes Intimidation; but also:*Forcing doors*Break free of bonds*Push through small places*Keep a boulder from rolling*Hang on to a wagon while being dragged behind it*Hold your breath, *March or labor for hours without rest, *Go without sleep*Survive without food or water (being less subject to fatigue)*Drinking (or being drugged, and arguably poisoned)*Pick a lock*Disable a trap*Securely tie up a prisoner*Shouting loud*Wriggle free of bonds*Driving vehicles*Playing a musical instrument (dexterity)*Thieves' tools*Artisan's tools...most of which (save the tools and instruments) aren't covered by skills, so no Expertise or Proficiency applied to this. So you are better than anyone at this. Yes, a Guidance spell can bump a cleric in some of this, but they better use this to aid a Fighter attempt, which has "proficiency" and maybe +1 modifier (or a feat) to the cleric. Of course, a spell can make some of this, but you have to have it prepared or available at the time. Which gives a lot of versatility to the fighter.In other words: the rogue/bard is the better specialist (a Heavy Metal guitarist), and the fighter is the better generalist (a professional musician: even by core, the 7th Level Fighter is as proficient as a 4th level Bard... with every musical instrument, while the bard is only with three or four, if Entertainer or Outlander. The Fighter has at least +2 in 10+ instruments). Spell casters are one-hit wonders (as popstars), or second-liner support cast (as we say in Argentina, plomos).Of course, feats are "optional rules", as every other rule in the PHB -modular system, remember?-, but why don't using them, if you want more "uniqueness"? Also, if you are not using them, the Variant Human (the only type of human worth playing, IMO) is worthless.Also, the point of the "baseline" was discussed several times: you aren't the "baseliner", because you have better scores. And you have Indomitable, which can reroll any save. And RA. And you have Second Wind, which is a one timer FUAAA! effect to boost your stamina, even if you failed a check and are near death. Also, the Action Surge can be used to make every action. Cunning Action has a limited arrange of possibilities/ things that can be done. Make another Skill Check is not, only Dash (which as I see it, cannot stack with the actual action), Hide or Disengage.  PHB, pp 96: "Starting at 2nd level, your quick thinking and agility allow you to move and act quickly. You can take a bonus action on each of your turns in combat. This action can be used only to take the Dash, Disengage or Hide action". So in a chase, the Fighter is actually faster. Your statement about Cunning Action to be superior as Action Surge outside combat is false, because Cunning Action is a combat-based ability by RAW.As for the bias of 4th Ed, is here done. In the 3X pages, it was the whole point of this thread. Some of you like more 4th edition: OK. Play it. I won't.</blockquote>

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