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<blockquote data-quote="Erechel" data-source="post: 6650614" data-attributes="member: 6784868">I forgot them, but:Supreme Sneak: Hide is one of the main features of the rogue, and with Expertise already there it is hardly ground breaker, only a minor boost. But at this time, the champion has both Remarkable Athlete and one more feat/ASI. And this ability also has a limited usage (Hide and walk slowly has advantage... I even give this for free sometimes). And a wizard has two 5 level slots. I'm not saying it isn't useful, but I don't think that is a big deal.Stroke of Luck: Same case of Cunning Action, as it is a combat ability, and a limited resource. And requires Level 20, where fighters have 7 ASI or feats (granted, the rogues are the second best at this, as they have 6 ASI, but other classes have 5). I think we were talking about non combat pillars, and low to mid level. By this time, Fighters have three Indomitable uses, two Action Surges and an ASI more than the rogues.This ultimately fails to disprove what many people is saying: the Fighter is far from worthless outside combat. In situations were time is key, an Action Surge, being a generalistic action, comes in handy (in a chase for example, or saving your companions from falling while you are holding still). No one can deny this utility, and if you aren't playing with limited timeframes outside combat, it's your loss. Ship wreckages, accidents, collapsing walls or chases are a few examples where timing is a key factor.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Erechel, post: 6650614, member: 6784868"] I forgot them, but: Supreme Sneak: Hide is one of the main features of the rogue, and with Expertise already there it is hardly ground breaker, only a minor boost. But at this time, the champion has both Remarkable Athlete and one more feat/ASI. And this ability also has a limited usage (Hide and walk slowly has advantage... I even give this for free sometimes). And a wizard has two 5 level slots. I'm not saying it isn't useful, but I don't think that is a big deal. Stroke of Luck: Same case of Cunning Action, as it is a combat ability, [I]and[/I] a limited resource. And requires Level 20, where fighters have 7 ASI or feats (granted, the rogues are the second best at this, as they have 6 ASI, but other classes have 5). I think we were talking about non combat pillars, and low to mid level. By this time, Fighters have three Indomitable uses, two Action Surges and an ASI more than the rogues. This ultimately fails to disprove what many people is saying: the Fighter is far from worthless outside combat. In situations were time is key, an Action Surge, being a generalistic action, comes in handy (in a chase for example, or saving your companions from falling while you are holding still). No one can deny this utility, and if you aren't playing with limited timeframes outside combat, it's your loss. Ship wreckages, accidents, collapsing walls or chases are a few examples where timing is a key factor. [/QUOTE]

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