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<blockquote data-quote="MoutonRustique" data-source="post: 6650656" data-attributes="member: 22362">I'm having a hard time accepting this as meaning anything other than : &quot;actively protect players from the system&quot;As I've seen espoused, the 5e DCs are &quot;world-set&quot;. So I'm having problems figuring out how you'd sell the idea that though you have a very reasonable chance to succeed, you actually don't get to try...I'm seeing it play out like :Strong peasant (Str 14) vs 20th level Barb = no checkStrong low-level Fighter vs 20th level Barb = ? perhaps a checkAverage (Str 10) 20th level fighter vs 20th level Barb = check*Strong peasant (Str 14) vs 20th level Dex Fighter (10 Str) =&nbsp; ???*I would assume this one gets to try, even if it has, by 5e's principals, a lower chance of success than the stronger peasant - which leaves me in a state of ???The main point is actually the impossibility for me to know which situation would allow for a contest.See above - you are completely correct. If this is meant as the way it is supposed to be, then I completely mis-understood the books.Bolded 1 - no one is saying they are worthless. They (and I) are saying they have nothing particular to offer. They are worse than everyone else (note that &quot;worse&quot; is a relative term - it does not mean &quot;bad&quot;, it simply means &quot;not as good&quot;). They are not abysmal, they simply have no tools to improve upon the baseline while every other class has a few.Bolded 2 - I fail to see how AS gives out-of-turn options. But that could be a very appropriate house-rule.Bolded 3 - in the way you are implying, yes, it can be done. (You're implying a great deal of use in broad situations where AS would give a significant advantage.) AS is very limited in use with short rests being so long - there is very little guarantee that it will be available. The examples you give don't work very well - having +33% speed for one round, would impact a chase only in the case were the target would be very, very close. Unless you're using it as a form of &quot;you spent a relevant resource and so I shall reward you with appropriate success&quot; - which is great! But not how the ability works in the &quot;base game&quot; - so we're definitely entering house-rule territory.Point is : AS can be very useful out of combat, but that usefulness is very DM-dependant. A more &quot;neutral&quot; reading offers some use, that is certain, but not so impressive as that. But it is something!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MoutonRustique, post: 6650656, member: 22362"] I'm having a hard time accepting this as meaning anything other than : "actively protect players from the system" As I've seen espoused, the 5e DCs are "world-set". So I'm having problems figuring out how you'd sell the idea that though you have a very reasonable chance to succeed, you actually don't get to try... I'm seeing it play out like : Strong peasant (Str 14) vs 20th level Barb = no check Strong low-level Fighter vs 20th level Barb = ? perhaps a check Average (Str 10) 20th level fighter vs 20th level Barb = check* Strong peasant (Str 14) vs 20th level Dex Fighter (10 Str) = ??? *I would assume this one gets to try, even if it has, by 5e's principals, a lower chance of success than the stronger peasant - which leaves me in a state of ??? The main point is actually the impossibility for me to know which situation would allow for a contest. See above - you are completely correct. If this is meant as the way it is supposed to be, then I completely mis-understood the books. [B]Bolded 1[/B] - no one is saying they are [I]worthless[/I]. They (and I) are saying they have nothing particular to offer. They are worse than everyone else (note that "worse" is a relative term - it does not mean "bad", it simply means "not as good"). They are [I]not[/I] abysmal, they simply have no tools to improve upon the baseline while every other class has a few. [B]Bolded 2[/B] - I fail to see how AS gives out-of-turn options. But that could be a very appropriate house-rule. [B]Bolded 3[/B] - in the way you are implying, yes, it can be done. (You're implying a great deal of use in broad situations where AS would give a significant advantage.) AS is very limited in use with short rests being so long - there is very little guarantee that it will be available. The examples you give don't work very well - having +33% speed for one round, would impact a chase only in the case were the target would be very, very close. Unless you're using it as a form of "you spent a relevant resource and so I shall reward you with appropriate success" - which is great! But not how the ability works in the "base game" - so we're definitely entering house-rule territory. Point is : AS [I]can[/I] be very useful out of combat, but that usefulness is very DM-dependant. A more "neutral" reading offers [I]some[/I] use, that is certain, but not so impressive as that. But it is something! [/QUOTE]

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