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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6650772" data-attributes="member: 996">Yes.&nbsp; A character with a bonus can hit a DC of 21 that a character without a bonus can't, as Imaro pointed out:&nbsp;But, a character with no bonus can also do as well or beat a character with maxed stat bonus and proficiency at +11, because (again) 5e met the Bounded Accuracy design goal.&nbsp; A d20 can overwhelm a +11.&nbsp; Mr. +11 rolls a 3, scores a 14, and fails a DC 15.&nbsp;&nbsp; Mr. +0 rolls a 16 and succeeds.&nbsp; Mr. 0 has saved the day, where Mr. 11 has failed.&nbsp; Que spotlight.That's the basis for the idea that most characters can participate or even contribute in most out of combat checks, most of the time.&nbsp; And that, in turn, is the basis for the Fighter being able to do much of anything out of combat, at all.&nbsp; That even though other characters may have proficiency or other stacking bonuses, those bonuses can be overwhelmed by a bit of d20 luck.&nbsp;Am I remembering correctly, from a prior, thread, that you were not here for the edition war?&nbsp; Because, you seem intent on creating a new 4v5 war, and you'd be virtually alone in that desire.Most fans of 4e are the type who simply play (and, perhaps, defend on-line) the current edition.&nbsp; The current edition is now 5e, and most of us are dutifully playing it.The 'h4ters' were not-too-visibly split between 3.5/Pathfinder hold-outs and OSR grognards/classic D&amp;D fans.&nbsp; The latter, particularly 2e fans, are mostly pretty happy with 5e, and the former seem content that they 'won' with the demise 4e, and see 5e as a symbol of that victory, even if they're not about to play it in favor of Pathfinder.&nbsp; In short, the war is over, you missed it.&nbsp; Stop shooting.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6650772, member: 996"] Yes. A character with a bonus can hit a DC of 21 that a character without a bonus can't, as Imaro pointed out: But, a character with no bonus can also do as well or beat a character with maxed stat bonus and proficiency at +11, because (again) 5e met the Bounded Accuracy design goal. A d20 can overwhelm a +11. Mr. +11 rolls a 3, scores a 14, and fails a DC 15. Mr. +0 rolls a 16 and succeeds. Mr. 0 has saved the day, where Mr. 11 has failed. Que spotlight. That's the basis for the idea that most characters can participate or even contribute in most out of combat checks, most of the time. And that, in turn, is the basis for the Fighter being able to do much of anything out of combat, at all. That even though other characters may have proficiency or other stacking bonuses, those bonuses can be overwhelmed by a bit of d20 luck. Am I remembering correctly, from a prior, thread, that you were not here for the edition war? Because, you seem intent on creating a new 4v5 war, and you'd be virtually alone in that desire. Most fans of 4e are the type who simply play (and, perhaps, defend on-line) the current edition. The current edition is now 5e, and most of us are dutifully playing it. The 'h4ters' were not-too-visibly split between 3.5/Pathfinder hold-outs and OSR grognards/classic D&D fans. The latter, particularly 2e fans, are mostly pretty happy with 5e, and the former seem content that they 'won' with the demise 4e, and see 5e as a symbol of that victory, even if they're not about to play it in favor of Pathfinder. In short, the war is over, you missed it. Stop shooting. [/QUOTE]

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