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Message: <blockquote data-quote="spinozajack" data-source="post: 6650860" data-attributes="member: 6794198">Any champion can learn to ride a horse as part of his background, or know how to use thieves' tools to pick a lock, has decent strength or dex to climb hills or avoid traps, build a fortified defense, smash open a blocked door, lots of HP and AC to delve first down that dark corridor. All those things are part of exploration pillar, with mechanics to support him doing just that. What you are lamenting, if I'm understanding your point correctly, is that the champion doesn't have any magic or skill expertise, and that's no fair. He can pick literally any proficiency he wants at level 1 through a background choice. If he wants to learn to fly, then yes, he has to multiclass to wizard or other class with access to a fly spell. Or just one step over in the fighter list, the Eldritch Knight is right there.And there is literally no reason why the Champion in shining armor can't be the party face, and inspire troops to follow him into battle, or convince the king to let him lead the defense of the castle, or borrow a magic artifact to slaw the lich in the basement, as part of the social pillar. He has access to every skill he wants to, and if he wants to do stuff like charm person, multiclassing is just one step away. Unlike in AD&D, he's not stuck playing a fighter forever either. It's so, so easy to multiclass as a fighter, you just need 13 strength or dex and whatever 13 in the other classes' prime stats to do it. And that makes sense too.Don't buy that you need spells or magic or supernatural abilities added to a fighter to contribute to non-combat pillar. Not for one second. A wizard in 5th edition can't even fly for that long anyway, and might even want to cast his Fly spell on the fighter because, hey, why should I risk my own hide by flying into that pit over there when this guy in the armor can do it for me? Plus if I take damage I fall? No thanks! It's team work. If your fighter is feeling small because he can't do magic, it is trivial to add that to your character. But many don't, because fighters fight, and can do plenty out of combat. It's just the stuff they do out of combat isn't magical. And that's great too. I don't want every class to have access to magic.Your entire thesis seems to be to be based on jealousy of what magic can accomplish out of combat, instead of realizing that fighters also have parties which work together, and can easily chug a potion of Fly or ring of invisibility, or use their platemail of etherealness to do incredible things on their own. And what D&D game has no magic items for the front line fighter? I don't buy the assumption that magic items aren't assumed. Specific ones aren't assumed. But magic items in general are part of every adventure's treasures, and those will benefit the fighter usually the most, and aid them in not just the combat pillar, but the other ones. Who would you rather be when fighting a dragon? A fighter who drank a fly potion or has fly cast on him? Or a wizard who is going to be mincemeat if he does it himself. The game is designed to be collaborative. You can't look at the champion's skills in a vaccuum. There are magic items, and casters around. Magic will benefit the fighter. The fighter can and will be contributing a lot towards all pillars, even without mechanics or magic specifically enhancing those areas.I've convinced way more NPCs to do my bidding through a convincing argument than a charm spell, which often backfires. People tend to believe the honest looking guy in the shiny armor, who speaks clearly and boldly. If anything, it's magical that you can charm someone with your wits and speech often better than you can with magic. And you can do it all day long, without running out of slots. The wizard should also being doing that, and keeping charm person in his back pocket for when there is no other choice but to use it. That's when the wizard gets to shine! Why take that away from them? Spotlight sharing, man!I roll a "disbelieve illusion" check on your claim that the champion needs any special mechanics or rules to contribute to non-combat pillars. I think your criticisms fundamentally misunderstand the point of the inclusion of a non-magical fighting man in Dungeons and Dragons.</blockquote>

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