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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6650959" data-attributes="member: 82106">Well, you chose that. My argument was more that &quot;black smith's apprentice&quot; could do some pretty fantastic feats of STR if you were to set the higher parts of the check range to represent really fantastical things. Because 4e has a much wider range of check bonuses from bottom to top, you can set the part of the range that represents amazing feats of STR beyond the top of what the village strong guy can hit, and STILL have a goodly range to work with so that you can differentiate between the merely impossible (IE lifting a house) and the entirely fantastical (IE lifting a Hill). Thus 4e can be used to represent that sort of environment (which covers a good bit of legendary material BTW, though not much modern fiction goes there). You just wouldn't want to do that with 5e, or you would have to A) retreat to DM fiat or B) Propose some sort of 'Mythic Tier of Play' that isn't detailed in the current rules and move that kind of thing into it with different rules. It just seemed that it was a more accessible range of play in 4e. I would say in some sense it was more accessible in earlier 'classic' D&amp;D as well, where you had Girdles of Storm Giant Strength that allowed you to access the 'godlike' stat range (IE a 25 STR in 1e is the highest possible STR, and a PC can access it, though probably only at very high levels). Ability scores above 18 were also in those days considered to be a 'non-linear' range, so 19-25 represent probably geometric increases in raw physical power. Now, 5e could explore that option too, although they seem to have already defined ability score bonuses for the higher range. It wouldn't help with problems of checks, but at least it would provide some more formalized basis for a GM to say &quot;OK, the fighter's STR is 22, he can lift the 1 ton stone lid, the 17 STR Cleric, he can't even try.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6650959, member: 82106"] Well, you chose that. My argument was more that "black smith's apprentice" could do some pretty fantastic feats of STR if you were to set the higher parts of the check range to represent really fantastical things. Because 4e has a much wider range of check bonuses from bottom to top, you can set the part of the range that represents amazing feats of STR beyond the top of what the village strong guy can hit, and STILL have a goodly range to work with so that you can differentiate between the merely impossible (IE lifting a house) and the entirely fantastical (IE lifting a Hill). Thus 4e can be used to represent that sort of environment (which covers a good bit of legendary material BTW, though not much modern fiction goes there). You just wouldn't want to do that with 5e, or you would have to A) retreat to DM fiat or B) Propose some sort of 'Mythic Tier of Play' that isn't detailed in the current rules and move that kind of thing into it with different rules. It just seemed that it was a more accessible range of play in 4e. I would say in some sense it was more accessible in earlier 'classic' D&D as well, where you had Girdles of Storm Giant Strength that allowed you to access the 'godlike' stat range (IE a 25 STR in 1e is the highest possible STR, and a PC can access it, though probably only at very high levels). Ability scores above 18 were also in those days considered to be a 'non-linear' range, so 19-25 represent probably geometric increases in raw physical power. Now, 5e could explore that option too, although they seem to have already defined ability score bonuses for the higher range. It wouldn't help with problems of checks, but at least it would provide some more formalized basis for a GM to say "OK, the fighter's STR is 22, he can lift the 1 ton stone lid, the 17 STR Cleric, he can't even try." [/QUOTE]

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