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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6651032" data-attributes="member: 82106">There's no strawman argument here, assuming you don't count proficiency, a 'normal human', albeit one that is 'the best guy in this small town', but still a person you will encounter commonly in your normal life, can get more than 2/3 of the way to the top of the DC curve by rolling a 20 (24 total with his ability bonus) and potentially might be worth another +2 for proficiency. This gets him to the Very Hard DC, which is nearly the top of the chart. Most 20th level PCs will have some trouble hitting this DC on most checks. Well, I am not sure I appreciate your drive-by attacks on 4th edition, they're still not very transparent, but be that as it may... I'm not sure what the big 'honesty' is. I've never stated that I hated or had a real problem with 5e. This is just a thread that was about stating the negative side of the 5e equation. I don't think there are huge negatives. If you want to play basically 2e AD&amp;D then 5e is an excellent game. You should perhaps learn to appreciate more games though, its more fun that way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6651032, member: 82106"] There's no strawman argument here, assuming you don't count proficiency, a 'normal human', albeit one that is 'the best guy in this small town', but still a person you will encounter commonly in your normal life, can get more than 2/3 of the way to the top of the DC curve by rolling a 20 (24 total with his ability bonus) and potentially might be worth another +2 for proficiency. This gets him to the Very Hard DC, which is nearly the top of the chart. Most 20th level PCs will have some trouble hitting this DC on most checks. Well, I am not sure I appreciate your drive-by attacks on 4th edition, they're still not very transparent, but be that as it may... I'm not sure what the big 'honesty' is. I've never stated that I hated or had a real problem with 5e. This is just a thread that was about stating the negative side of the 5e equation. I don't think there are huge negatives. If you want to play basically 2e AD&D then 5e is an excellent game. You should perhaps learn to appreciate more games though, its more fun that way. [/QUOTE]

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