Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6651489" data-attributes="member: 82106">Right, genre logic, or one might call it narrative logic is a driving force in 4e's resolution system. It appears to me that 5e's system simplistically deploys DCs as a sort of 'minefield'. There are lots of checks at fairly low success levels, with potentially DCs being arbitrarily high even in situations designed for low level PCs. The theory being to just 'make it all challenging' and hope it works out. A 4e adventure is structured (ideally, many are poorly written) such that the DCs provide story variation, which character gets the spotlight now, and perhaps which path you take based on choosing a risk/reward level. That is the players could choose to fight the hobgoblins, or they could choose to cross the Great Gulch on the rickety bridge. The fight might be a pretty sure bet, but plainly going to cost some surges and whatnot. Crossing the bridge is riskier, if the bridge fails someone could die, but if its successful then you got by with just skill checks (an SC probably). The point being, if you examine the chances of success in 4e checks, they're not very tough to pass in general. The game WANTS you to succeed. The average level 1 PC has say a +5 on a check, and the medium DC is 12, so mostly the system is saying 65% or more success, and in an SC you probably have your best guy, he's got an 80% success on a medium check. The hard checks are then used by the GM to force the PCs to plan ahead, use some extra resources, or change tactics, but (again its an SC) not to outright fail the encounter in most cases. Cumulatively the situation could be quite iffy, but if the DM is putting narrative logic of conflict, the protagonist PCs are moving through a narrative conflict with whatever the current antagonist is, then they're always making some sort of progress. You CAN of course fail, but the story is more about the cost of success. This is why the SC system is really so core to everything. While we've debated the check mechanics of each system, the truth is the raw check mechanics of 4e are intended for a rather different purpose than in 5e. They inject tension and some uncertainty, but they're not intended to create hard obstacles to success, at least not until the players have chosen to trust their fates to pure chance.</blockquote>

Verification