Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why does 5E SUCK?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6652129" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>You can run a game of D&D where rule resolution and content creation are separate responsibilities. The DM will always and must always be responsible for content creation, because as the Czege Principle states, "when one person is the author of both the character's adversity and its resolution, play isn't fun."[1] The DM doesn't necessarily have to be in charge of rule resolution. You can and I have resolved rules question by table consensus or majority vote. I don't always do it that way--for minor issues I'll just make the call, since I am both the DM and the most experienced RPGer and the most familiar with the 5E rules--but it's certainly not incompatible with 5E's style to take rulings out of the DM's exclusive province.</p><p></p><p>The benefit of doing so is that it enhances player agency, which is the majority of the fun of D&D. Player agency is essentially the ability of a player to predict in advance the results of an interaction, without having to play 20 Questions With the DM first. It's not necessary that player be able to succeed, he just has to have a good understanding of what the odds are. The more closely you adhere to predictable rules at your table, the more easily players can immerse themselves in the world as actors in that world.</p><p></p><p>I've mentioned before that one rule that works well at my table is the Rule of Yes: the first time in a campaign that you try something wacky, it just works and we'll go from there. The second time I may bother coming up with actual rules for e.g. how much rope you need to securely bind a roper's tentacles to itself so you can capture it safely without it eating you, but the first time it's guaranteed to work. This is an actual rule at our table, so the player thinking to himself, "Hmmm, I wonder if I can shadow jump straight up and then fall <em>on top of that vampire with my wooden stake pointing straight down</em>" can decide for himself whether he likes the merits of the plan (pro: badly damage the vampire; con: take falling damage) without the lag introduced by consulting the DM for a feasibility judgment first. Thus, the Rule of Yes leads to more player agency and fun at the table, but the fact that it only necessarily works once prevents it from getting out of control in abusive ways.</p><p></p><p>[1] There are ways to run an enjoyable solo D&D game, but AFAIK they all externalize content creation to e.g. random tables, or at least to a separate asynchronous "authoring" mode.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #000000"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">That sounds reasonable, and I share your frustration with the unfinished bits of 5E (e.g. the MM is particularly sparse on non-combat creature information) but what's the alternative that doesn't have some assembly required? I've never found a system of any kind that <em>didn't</em> require additional pieces, nor can I even really imagine what that system would look like as a commercial product. The closest I've ever seen is GURPS: Gulliver, but even that really only gives you rules for things without its specific purview (building very large/small/oddly shaped creatures/fast/slow/strong creatures and running them in a way which is both realistic and fun), leaving another 80% of the game that still requires DM fiat. What happens when someone drills a hole in <em>this</em> section of castle? Do you have castle structural integrity rules to tell you which floors will collapse? What kind of furniture is in this house where the hobgoblin vampires have been holed up for the past three weeks? Obviously the rooms aren't going to just be empty except for three vampires--but what is there? What do dragons eat and how often?</span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">You <em>always</em> run into these kinds of information vacuums in any system I've ever heard of. Some assembly is always required.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6652129, member: 6787650"] You can run a game of D&D where rule resolution and content creation are separate responsibilities. The DM will always and must always be responsible for content creation, because as the Czege Principle states, "when one person is the author of both the character's adversity and its resolution, play isn't fun."[1] The DM doesn't necessarily have to be in charge of rule resolution. You can and I have resolved rules question by table consensus or majority vote. I don't always do it that way--for minor issues I'll just make the call, since I am both the DM and the most experienced RPGer and the most familiar with the 5E rules--but it's certainly not incompatible with 5E's style to take rulings out of the DM's exclusive province. The benefit of doing so is that it enhances player agency, which is the majority of the fun of D&D. Player agency is essentially the ability of a player to predict in advance the results of an interaction, without having to play 20 Questions With the DM first. It's not necessary that player be able to succeed, he just has to have a good understanding of what the odds are. The more closely you adhere to predictable rules at your table, the more easily players can immerse themselves in the world as actors in that world. I've mentioned before that one rule that works well at my table is the Rule of Yes: the first time in a campaign that you try something wacky, it just works and we'll go from there. The second time I may bother coming up with actual rules for e.g. how much rope you need to securely bind a roper's tentacles to itself so you can capture it safely without it eating you, but the first time it's guaranteed to work. This is an actual rule at our table, so the player thinking to himself, "Hmmm, I wonder if I can shadow jump straight up and then fall [I]on top of that vampire with my wooden stake pointing straight down[/I]" can decide for himself whether he likes the merits of the plan (pro: badly damage the vampire; con: take falling damage) without the lag introduced by consulting the DM for a feasibility judgment first. Thus, the Rule of Yes leads to more player agency and fun at the table, but the fact that it only necessarily works once prevents it from getting out of control in abusive ways. [1] There are ways to run an enjoyable solo D&D game, but AFAIK they all externalize content creation to e.g. random tables, or at least to a separate asynchronous "authoring" mode. [COLOR=#000000] That sounds reasonable, and I share your frustration with the unfinished bits of 5E (e.g. the MM is particularly sparse on non-combat creature information) but what's the alternative that doesn't have some assembly required? I've never found a system of any kind that [I]didn't[/I] require additional pieces, nor can I even really imagine what that system would look like as a commercial product. The closest I've ever seen is GURPS: Gulliver, but even that really only gives you rules for things without its specific purview (building very large/small/oddly shaped creatures/fast/slow/strong creatures and running them in a way which is both realistic and fun), leaving another 80% of the game that still requires DM fiat. What happens when someone drills a hole in [I]this[/I] section of castle? Do you have castle structural integrity rules to tell you which floors will collapse? What kind of furniture is in this house where the hobgoblin vampires have been holed up for the past three weeks? Obviously the rooms aren't going to just be empty except for three vampires--but what is there? What do dragons eat and how often? You [I]always[/I] run into these kinds of information vacuums in any system I've ever heard of. Some assembly is always required.[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why does 5E SUCK?
Top