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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6652895" data-attributes="member: 2067">The die is luck.Getting the die to a higher number with limited resources - that is challenge. Bring me your blesses, your ability score bumps, your Help actions yearning to breathe free. That's the challenge. But of course, it's an opt in challenge - you could just not bypass the lock. That's fine, too. ....exactly what upping your piddly 1st-level proficiency bonus to something resembling a fair chance to undo that lock can be! Man, there is a HUGE psychological difference between a DC and a saving throw. Also, philosophically, &quot;tossing the players a bone&quot; is tantamount to &quot;removing consequences,&quot; and thus sets up the failure as potentially unsatisfying gameplay (as I experienced just the other week with a newbie DM in 5e!). It is fine if the mission fails. But it is almost always bad adventure design to let one roll come between success and failure, regardless of the odds on that roll. A lock with an outrageously high DC is not something that is gating off necessary content for your play experience. Why not just let them figure out if they can bypass it? Maybe rather than pick the lock, someone brought a vial of acid, or the fighter has a crowbar and doesn't know the meaning of the word &quot;closed door.&quot; Or there's a back entrance that they just haven't found yet. Or whatever.Well, I'm not saying that.I am saying that the presumption that a DC should be within a narrow 40-60% or so band of success is a presumption that can lead to bland, predictable gameplay. A presumption that a DC is high if it makes sense to be high regardless of the PC's level is a presumption that can lead to some interesting problem-solving moments.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6652895, member: 2067"] The die is luck. Getting the die to a higher number with limited resources - [I]that[/I] is challenge. Bring me your [I]blesses[/I], your ability score bumps, your Help actions yearning to breathe free. That's the challenge. But of course, it's an opt in challenge - you could just not bypass the lock. That's fine, too. ....exactly what upping your piddly 1st-level proficiency bonus to something resembling a fair chance to undo that lock can be! Man, there is a HUGE psychological difference between a DC and a saving throw. Also, philosophically, "tossing the players a bone" is tantamount to "removing consequences," and thus sets up the failure as potentially unsatisfying gameplay (as I experienced just the other week with a newbie DM in 5e!). It is fine if the mission fails. But it is almost always bad adventure design to let one roll come between success and failure, regardless of the odds on that roll. A lock with an outrageously high DC is not something that is gating off necessary content for your play experience. Why not just let them figure out if they can bypass it? Maybe rather than pick the lock, someone brought a vial of acid, or the fighter has a crowbar and doesn't know the meaning of the word "closed door." Or there's a back entrance that they just haven't found yet. Or whatever. Well, I'm not saying that. I am saying that the presumption that a DC should be within a narrow 40-60% or so band of success is a presumption that can lead to bland, predictable gameplay. A presumption that a DC is high if it makes sense to be high regardless of the PC's level is a presumption that can lead to some interesting problem-solving moments. [/QUOTE]

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