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Why does 5E SUCK?
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<blockquote data-quote="Erechel" data-source="post: 6653294" data-attributes="member: 6784868"><p>This is a response on @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=82106" target="_blank">AbdulAlhazred</a></u></strong></em> post about how the DCs "should" guarantee success at about a 60% of the time. In fact, it's a description about 4ed made by a 4ed fan, against 5ed, which is supposedly a deadlier game (or at least a frustrating one). Many people (myself being one, but specially @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=5834" target="_blank">Celtavian</a></u></strong></em>) insisted in your point exactly: there are many of the same assumptions. 5ed isn't worst because somehow delivers dangers in a way that no other game has. The examples given were Skill/Ability Checks against Skill Challenges, with somehow people whom presumably don't understand Skill Checks believe that they are less roleplaying (!) than Skill Challenges, when clearly there is no such difference except on the "in-world" difficulty against "by-level" difficulty. I've always handled Skill Checks in a very similar way to Skill Challenges: there are problems to solve, and there are several possible ways to overcome them, with or without synergy among different skills, abilities and roleplaying, depending on the players' choices. And there are more ways to reward careful play, like Advantage and Inspiration (which, awarded by the DM, is left to the players to decide when and where to use it, and so breaking the "DM tyranny").</p><p></p><p>The point being made is: many of the "5 Edition SUCKS because can't do X" are utterly false. I particularly like 5th edition because of Bounded Accuracy, which keep skill and stat choices meaningful; because how handles the interaction between Backgrounds, Classes and Races; because the empowerment of the Fighter without needing a weird system of vancian martiality (which is also there in a subclass); because keeps threats relevant en-masse at upper levels and don't scalate things in a Final Fantasy way where a high level character enters an area and suddenly all enemies are unable to even hurt them; because handles Multiclassing in a non-cheesy way; because I like subsystems to make the differences between the classes mechanically, but without the broken, messed out way of 3rd/ 2nd editions, and because the overall game is easy, simple enough encouraging careful roleplaying over dice-rolling without taking away rulesets.</p><p></p><p>Several critics made are, for me, gross simplifications (like the godlike, unfettered DM power) or blatantly false assumptions (as the luck overdependancy). I see several positions (not all of them) as heavily biased and unable to reason, no matter how many arguments are displayed. I can understand many reasons behind the bias (EG, the anger of leaving behind your entire edition due market reasons; the hatedom of your edition and the sense that this lead to an opposite direction of the new edition; and also emotional attachment), and I can understand a couple of reasonable "It's not my cup of tea" -as the linear and not exponential power growth of Bounded Accuracy-, but please try to read each other possitions in a meaningful way, open minded. Or at least, recognize some bias, and a certain amount of what has been always critiziced as bad for the same people who is doing it now: flame. This post is flame.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Erechel, post: 6653294, member: 6784868"] This is a response on @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=82106"]AbdulAlhazred[/URL][/U][/B][/I] post about how the DCs "should" guarantee success at about a 60% of the time. In fact, it's a description about 4ed made by a 4ed fan, against 5ed, which is supposedly a deadlier game (or at least a frustrating one). Many people (myself being one, but specially @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=5834"]Celtavian[/URL][/U][/B][/I]) insisted in your point exactly: there are many of the same assumptions. 5ed isn't worst because somehow delivers dangers in a way that no other game has. The examples given were Skill/Ability Checks against Skill Challenges, with somehow people whom presumably don't understand Skill Checks believe that they are less roleplaying (!) than Skill Challenges, when clearly there is no such difference except on the "in-world" difficulty against "by-level" difficulty. I've always handled Skill Checks in a very similar way to Skill Challenges: there are problems to solve, and there are several possible ways to overcome them, with or without synergy among different skills, abilities and roleplaying, depending on the players' choices. And there are more ways to reward careful play, like Advantage and Inspiration (which, awarded by the DM, is left to the players to decide when and where to use it, and so breaking the "DM tyranny"). The point being made is: many of the "5 Edition SUCKS because can't do X" are utterly false. I particularly like 5th edition because of Bounded Accuracy, which keep skill and stat choices meaningful; because how handles the interaction between Backgrounds, Classes and Races; because the empowerment of the Fighter without needing a weird system of vancian martiality (which is also there in a subclass); because keeps threats relevant en-masse at upper levels and don't scalate things in a Final Fantasy way where a high level character enters an area and suddenly all enemies are unable to even hurt them; because handles Multiclassing in a non-cheesy way; because I like subsystems to make the differences between the classes mechanically, but without the broken, messed out way of 3rd/ 2nd editions, and because the overall game is easy, simple enough encouraging careful roleplaying over dice-rolling without taking away rulesets. Several critics made are, for me, gross simplifications (like the godlike, unfettered DM power) or blatantly false assumptions (as the luck overdependancy). I see several positions (not all of them) as heavily biased and unable to reason, no matter how many arguments are displayed. I can understand many reasons behind the bias (EG, the anger of leaving behind your entire edition due market reasons; the hatedom of your edition and the sense that this lead to an opposite direction of the new edition; and also emotional attachment), and I can understand a couple of reasonable "It's not my cup of tea" -as the linear and not exponential power growth of Bounded Accuracy-, but please try to read each other possitions in a meaningful way, open minded. Or at least, recognize some bias, and a certain amount of what has been always critiziced as bad for the same people who is doing it now: flame. This post is flame. [/QUOTE]
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