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<blockquote data-quote="bert1000" data-source="post: 6655090" data-attributes="member: 29013"><p>DCs are subjective but they are not at all meant to be arbitrary. The DM is suppose to consider the world/genre being played in AND the PCs level to set a DC that makes sense. </p><p></p><p>Why would you assign Venca's lock a Hard DC for a low level character? In most traditional D&D settings it's likely impossible for a low level character. </p><p></p><p>You know, you don't have to assign something a level appropriate DC? You assign something a level appropriate DC when it's a level appropriate challenge. If it's a trivial challenge you just say yes, if it's an impossible task you just say no.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This seems like one of those "if you use poor judgement while you play, your game is going to be bad" arguments. </p><p></p><p>There IS of course reason to assume that an adamantium lock or a rusty tin lock have a certain DC. The fiction tells you. It's just that DC will vary depending on PC level. The variability is just the way 4e was set up mechanically, nothing more or less.</p><p></p><p>So try this for the adamantium lock:</p><p>1) determine if the lock is a challenge for PC at their level based on the fiction</p><p>2) if it is decide what type of DC to assign (Easy/Medium/Hard based) then roll</p><p>3) if it's trivially easy then they just say they pick it. if it's impossibly hard then rule it's impossible.</p><p></p><p>If your gripe is that it's difficult for some people to make these rulings on the fly and keep them consistent, then fine. I don't think it's particularly difficult but might take some practice. (there's also nothing stopping you from figuring on the DC ruling ahead of time)</p><p></p><p>I fail to see how it ruins your sense of sense of accomplishment if you somehow find the Venca lock early on in your career and can't pick it and then come back later and can.</p><p></p><p>Or if you go from picking normal locks with 50-60% success early in your career to picking fiendish soul locks with 50-60% later in your career (and not bothering to roll for normal locks -- they aren't a level appropriate challenge anymore).</p><p></p><p>I really hate these arguments that seem to come from the worst possible interpretation of DM/players behavior. Of course, if the DM is giving you a Hard DC for Venca's lock at 5th level and a Hard DC for a no-name tomb lock at 15th level, you aren't going to feel that sense of accomplishment. But this is a disconnect between in fiction and the ruling not a flaw inherent in the mechanics.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think you can argue that its easier on the DM with fixed DCs, or that you really like rolling for things even when they are impossible or trivially easy. Or that the act of rolling and knowing that you will always succeed at high level gives you a feeling of accomplishment. That's fine, but I think you really undermine your position when you paint the most unfavorable execution of 4e mechanics (DCs set that are inconsistent with the fiction) and blame the outcome on the mechanics themselves.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bert1000, post: 6655090, member: 29013"] DCs are subjective but they are not at all meant to be arbitrary. The DM is suppose to consider the world/genre being played in AND the PCs level to set a DC that makes sense. Why would you assign Venca's lock a Hard DC for a low level character? In most traditional D&D settings it's likely impossible for a low level character. You know, you don't have to assign something a level appropriate DC? You assign something a level appropriate DC when it's a level appropriate challenge. If it's a trivial challenge you just say yes, if it's an impossible task you just say no. This seems like one of those "if you use poor judgement while you play, your game is going to be bad" arguments. There IS of course reason to assume that an adamantium lock or a rusty tin lock have a certain DC. The fiction tells you. It's just that DC will vary depending on PC level. The variability is just the way 4e was set up mechanically, nothing more or less. So try this for the adamantium lock: 1) determine if the lock is a challenge for PC at their level based on the fiction 2) if it is decide what type of DC to assign (Easy/Medium/Hard based) then roll 3) if it's trivially easy then they just say they pick it. if it's impossibly hard then rule it's impossible. If your gripe is that it's difficult for some people to make these rulings on the fly and keep them consistent, then fine. I don't think it's particularly difficult but might take some practice. (there's also nothing stopping you from figuring on the DC ruling ahead of time) I fail to see how it ruins your sense of sense of accomplishment if you somehow find the Venca lock early on in your career and can't pick it and then come back later and can. Or if you go from picking normal locks with 50-60% success early in your career to picking fiendish soul locks with 50-60% later in your career (and not bothering to roll for normal locks -- they aren't a level appropriate challenge anymore). I really hate these arguments that seem to come from the worst possible interpretation of DM/players behavior. Of course, if the DM is giving you a Hard DC for Venca's lock at 5th level and a Hard DC for a no-name tomb lock at 15th level, you aren't going to feel that sense of accomplishment. But this is a disconnect between in fiction and the ruling not a flaw inherent in the mechanics. I think you can argue that its easier on the DM with fixed DCs, or that you really like rolling for things even when they are impossible or trivially easy. Or that the act of rolling and knowing that you will always succeed at high level gives you a feeling of accomplishment. That's fine, but I think you really undermine your position when you paint the most unfavorable execution of 4e mechanics (DCs set that are inconsistent with the fiction) and blame the outcome on the mechanics themselves. [/QUOTE]
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