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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6655516" data-attributes="member: 82106">OK, this is now so absurd that I'm just calling you on it. I flat out disbelieve this statement. Its utter nonsense. I DMed AD&D from 1977 to 1995 continuously on at least a weekly basis. I ran countless thousands of sessions of these games. There's nothing you can tell me about AD&D. I literally can run the game from rote memory without ever referring to a book with virtually 100% accuracy, even after 20 years. To survive any sort of serious adventure without a cleric in AD&D is absurd. I mean, sure, you may be quite able to deal with specific scenarios, but you are taking horrible, horrible risks and the survival rate of a party, of any level, won't even be half what it would be with a cleric.I don't agree that it is true in 5e either, as I've stated in previous posts. I'm sure its quite a bit less extreme, but a cleric is still the best option in that game. In 4e it was really not true, as I just detailed in my last post. A warlord or bard could easily put out the amount of healing required to get you over the hump, and beyond that was counter-productive.I submit you will increase the survivability of the party with a cleric. I just flat out state it, they are that good. Anything a bard or druid can do, a cleric can do most of it better, and has other unique talents (IE spells) that the other two lack. I'm sure that at least in 5e there are many scenarios where the cleric won't matter much and other healing capable casters will work fine, but you'll find that day before long when you really wanted Mr Cleric. Heh, the only PCs in our campaign that have died, all clerics. In fact we're on the 4th party cleric in 5 levels now. We still absolutely demand having a cleric, to the point where we hired an NPC cleric, and then a replacement NPC cleric when nobody would play one. We do have a druid as well, but as I say, he hasn't really evinced any special talent as either a healer or a damage mitigator. Frankly I would rather have the other abilities of the cleric even if the two were equally good at healing. Turn Undead is pretty much mandatory, its saved our bacon 3 or 4 times already.</blockquote>

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