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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6655530" data-attributes="member: 82106">There were many humans with monster stat blocks in the 1977 1e AD&amp;D Monster Manual which would like to talk to you. I refer you to the 'Men' entry, under which are Bandits, Dervishes, Buccaneers, etc. Many of these figures are treated as being 'higher level', but in many cases they have specific stats instead of simply class levels.I agree that OFTEN it was expected that you would stat up (demi)-human(oid) creatures, but most of those cases are strictly 'fighter's which essentially means added hit dice (and many cases they are just simply described as X+N hit dice figures). Well, there wasn't any specific need for different ogre stat blocks. However there WERE certainly stat blocks for specific ogres, and different flavors of ogre. I am pretty darn sure that for instance there are modules with unique ogres that have unique stat blocks, and 'better armored ogres' with slightly different stats, etc. But without concepts like 'minion' there's not a lot of reason you'd ever make a different stat block for a given individual ogre. To call that some sort of high principle of D&amp;D however is IMHO absurd. Its just something that wasn't deemed useful given the mechanics of D&amp;D pre-4e. Until people suggested minionization of 4e monsters I'd never in more than 30 years ever heard any such principle suggested.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6655530, member: 82106"] There were many humans with monster stat blocks in the 1977 1e AD&D Monster Manual which would like to talk to you. I refer you to the 'Men' entry, under which are Bandits, Dervishes, Buccaneers, etc. Many of these figures are treated as being 'higher level', but in many cases they have specific stats instead of simply class levels. I agree that OFTEN it was expected that you would stat up (demi)-human(oid) creatures, but most of those cases are strictly 'fighter's which essentially means added hit dice (and many cases they are just simply described as X+N hit dice figures). Well, there wasn't any specific need for different ogre stat blocks. However there WERE certainly stat blocks for specific ogres, and different flavors of ogre. I am pretty darn sure that for instance there are modules with unique ogres that have unique stat blocks, and 'better armored ogres' with slightly different stats, etc. But without concepts like 'minion' there's not a lot of reason you'd ever make a different stat block for a given individual ogre. To call that some sort of high principle of D&D however is IMHO absurd. Its just something that wasn't deemed useful given the mechanics of D&D pre-4e. Until people suggested minionization of 4e monsters I'd never in more than 30 years ever heard any such principle suggested. [/QUOTE]

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