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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6655951" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>I don't think it's explicit about the fiction at all. It's telling you that the first priority is to set an "appropriate DC"... it then goes on to give an unclear example of what exactly is appropriate at that level/DC. IMO that's one of the problems with 4e's DC's... it tells you... "Hey set an appropriate DC then construct some appropriate fiction... but it doesn't give you a good basis to design said fiction. In the example above you cited is it saying majority of your doors should be barred? That the PC's should never run into wooden doors at that level or that iron doors are too hard?</p><p></p><p>I also think it's combination of objective and scaling DC's causes a certain incoherency in the game when it comes to challenges... as illustrated by the difference between a wooden door and the Cave Slime I mention below. One's DC is objective and the other one's is level appropriately based...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The terrain text illustrates exactly what some of the people in here are talking about. If you look under Cave Slime, it states... </p><p></p><p><em>"This thin blue slime is harmless but extremely slick. A creature that enters a square filled with cave slime must succeed at an Acrobatics check or fall prone. Use the difficulty Class by Level table (page 42) to set a DC that's appropriate to the character's level."</em></p><p></p><p>The rules are specifically stating that this slime scales with the PC's levels... so even though their level and bonuses increase, their chance to not slip stays the same. This is exactly what I and some of the other posters are talking about in this thread... and this isn't the only one written like this.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again I am asking where is this stated. IMO, and I've brought this up before in other discussions, 4e confuses the matter because it is a mixture of objective DC's which are tied tightly to the fiction and scaling DC's that aren't. And, as seen in the case of some of the terrain the fiction is not always changed to match a changing in the DC's. </p><p></p><p>To address your other statement about level appropriateness and encounters... you listed 3 types of encounters... combat, skill challenge and puzzle. You state that combat and skill challenge are supposed to be built around appropriate level DC's, so that leaves... puzzles? How do you even make puzzles level appropriate? Of course they give rules for puzzles as SC's in which case you would design it as level appropriate. </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes but this has nothing to do with level appropriate challenges and everything to do with capability. In other words it is not the fiction around difficulty that is changing... it is the DM judging that the capability to address the challenge in that way is not there.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't own Draconomicon... so I can't really comment on it. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is my point though... not only is it not discussed... it's the opposite of everything the DMG 1 puts forth. In other words having level appropriate DC's is stressed throughout encounter design.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 6655951, member: 48965"] I don't think it's explicit about the fiction at all. It's telling you that the first priority is to set an "appropriate DC"... it then goes on to give an unclear example of what exactly is appropriate at that level/DC. IMO that's one of the problems with 4e's DC's... it tells you... "Hey set an appropriate DC then construct some appropriate fiction... but it doesn't give you a good basis to design said fiction. In the example above you cited is it saying majority of your doors should be barred? That the PC's should never run into wooden doors at that level or that iron doors are too hard? I also think it's combination of objective and scaling DC's causes a certain incoherency in the game when it comes to challenges... as illustrated by the difference between a wooden door and the Cave Slime I mention below. One's DC is objective and the other one's is level appropriately based... The terrain text illustrates exactly what some of the people in here are talking about. If you look under Cave Slime, it states... [I]"This thin blue slime is harmless but extremely slick. A creature that enters a square filled with cave slime must succeed at an Acrobatics check or fall prone. Use the difficulty Class by Level table (page 42) to set a DC that's appropriate to the character's level."[/I] The rules are specifically stating that this slime scales with the PC's levels... so even though their level and bonuses increase, their chance to not slip stays the same. This is exactly what I and some of the other posters are talking about in this thread... and this isn't the only one written like this. Again I am asking where is this stated. IMO, and I've brought this up before in other discussions, 4e confuses the matter because it is a mixture of objective DC's which are tied tightly to the fiction and scaling DC's that aren't. And, as seen in the case of some of the terrain the fiction is not always changed to match a changing in the DC's. To address your other statement about level appropriateness and encounters... you listed 3 types of encounters... combat, skill challenge and puzzle. You state that combat and skill challenge are supposed to be built around appropriate level DC's, so that leaves... puzzles? How do you even make puzzles level appropriate? Of course they give rules for puzzles as SC's in which case you would design it as level appropriate. Yes but this has nothing to do with level appropriate challenges and everything to do with capability. In other words it is not the fiction around difficulty that is changing... it is the DM judging that the capability to address the challenge in that way is not there. I don't own Draconomicon... so I can't really comment on it. This is my point though... not only is it not discussed... it's the opposite of everything the DMG 1 puts forth. In other words having level appropriate DC's is stressed throughout encounter design. [/QUOTE]
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