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<blockquote data-quote="bert1000" data-source="post: 6657119" data-attributes="member: 29013">This is a really great point.&nbsp;&nbsp; It is lazy and not interesting.&nbsp;&nbsp; But it doesn't change the premise that these slimes are DIFFERENT slimes, right?&nbsp;&nbsp; The higher level slimes are tougher slimes.&nbsp;&nbsp; This DC conversation has been interesting for me, because I came into it thinking there actually was a big difference between DC setting in 5e (fixed) and 4e (relative, subjective) but now I’m not sure 4e really does use “subjective” DCs in any real sense!If you believe that the fiction must be appropriate to the DC, then all 4e really does is give you a handy reference chart that shows you typical percentage success rates for each level.&nbsp;&nbsp; This helps you determine the appropriate DCs for the fiction.&nbsp; Whether you determine the fiction first, then assign a DC (level appropriate or not depending on the fiction), or start with the DCs and determine a fiction that fits (what kind of portal would be an appropriate challenge for a Level 15 PC?) are different approaches to DESIGN but it’s not really “subjective” any more than thinking about what is appropriate in 5e.&nbsp; &nbsp; You could use either method in 5e too.&nbsp;&nbsp; Hmm, I want to imagine a fortress that has Impossible locks what would that look like?Even in SCs which seems like the ultimate ‘stick to the level guidelines’, the fiction is assumed appropriate right?&nbsp;&nbsp; You aren’t going to run a Level 25 SC for Level 25 PCs to chase down a common thief through city streets?&nbsp;&nbsp; So for those that DO believe the fiction and DC must align, what does it mean to have subjective/relative DCs?&nbsp;&nbsp; Aren’t the 4e level guidelines just a way to help assign appropriate DCs to the fiction in the DESIGN phase?&nbsp;&nbsp; Once a DC is attached to the fiction it doesn’t change, right?Pemerton, you seem like someone that believes the fiction and DC must align, and also thinks there is a difference between ‘fixed’ and ‘subjective’ DCs.&nbsp;&nbsp; Care to explain?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bert1000, post: 6657119, member: 29013"] This is a really great point. It is lazy and not interesting. But it doesn't change the premise that these slimes are DIFFERENT slimes, right? The higher level slimes are tougher slimes. This DC conversation has been interesting for me, because I came into it thinking there actually was a big difference between DC setting in 5e (fixed) and 4e (relative, subjective) but now I’m not sure 4e really does use “subjective” DCs in any real sense! If you believe that the fiction must be appropriate to the DC, then all 4e really does is give you a handy reference chart that shows you typical percentage success rates for each level. This helps you determine the appropriate DCs for the fiction. Whether you determine the fiction first, then assign a DC (level appropriate or not depending on the fiction), or start with the DCs and determine a fiction that fits (what kind of portal would be an appropriate challenge for a Level 15 PC?) are different approaches to DESIGN but it’s not really “subjective” any more than thinking about what is appropriate in 5e. You could use either method in 5e too. Hmm, I want to imagine a fortress that has Impossible locks what would that look like? Even in SCs which seems like the ultimate ‘stick to the level guidelines’, the fiction is assumed appropriate right? You aren’t going to run a Level 25 SC for Level 25 PCs to chase down a common thief through city streets? So for those that DO believe the fiction and DC must align, what does it mean to have subjective/relative DCs? Aren’t the 4e level guidelines just a way to help assign appropriate DCs to the fiction in the DESIGN phase? Once a DC is attached to the fiction it doesn’t change, right? Pemerton, you seem like someone that believes the fiction and DC must align, and also thinks there is a difference between ‘fixed’ and ‘subjective’ DCs. Care to explain? [/QUOTE]

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