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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6657328" data-attributes="member: 42582">I can see that.In 4e they might still be skill challenges, which makes them mecanically tactical although remaining strategic in the fiction. (So not quite the same as the Rise of Tiamat climax that you criticise, which becomes tactical both in mechanics and in fiction.)I've only run a few sessions of 3E, and so don't know anything first hand about its CR system, though I've read plenty of online criticism.4e's encounter building guidelines have been pretty robust. Certainly at paragon and above (my memory for heroic tier has now faded a bit), an on-level encounter is pretty simple, but a level+4 or higher encounter will require the players to put in a fair bit of effort. (And take a fair bit of table time to resolve.)In the encounter I mentioned, Orcus had the ability (not at will) to reduce a PC to 0 hp with a single touch of his wand, while the balrog could hit for a crit that did 80 to 100 hp of damage. (The PCs have between 130-ish (the invoker/wizard) and 200+ (the fighter and paladin) hit points.) There were turns where PCs took 100+ hp damage, but other than when Orcus used his death touch I don't think any PC was dropped from full to zero in a single turn.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6657328, member: 42582"] I can see that. In 4e they might still be skill challenges, which makes them [I]mecanically[/I] tactical although remaining strategic in the fiction. (So not quite the same as the Rise of Tiamat climax that you criticise, which becomes tactical both in mechanics [I]and[/I] in fiction.) I've only run a few sessions of 3E, and so don't know anything first hand about its CR system, though I've read plenty of online criticism. 4e's encounter building guidelines have been pretty robust. Certainly at paragon and above (my memory for heroic tier has now faded a bit), an on-level encounter is pretty simple, but a level+4 or higher encounter will require the players to put in a fair bit of effort. (And take a fair bit of table time to resolve.) In the encounter I mentioned, Orcus had the ability (not at will) to reduce a PC to 0 hp with a single touch of his wand, while the balrog could hit for a crit that did 80 to 100 hp of damage. (The PCs have between 130-ish (the invoker/wizard) and 200+ (the fighter and paladin) hit points.) There were turns where PCs took 100+ hp damage, but other than when Orcus used his death touch I don't think any PC was dropped from full to zero in a single turn. [/QUOTE]

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