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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6658265" data-attributes="member: 82106">Sure, in 2e you can polymorph an orc into a dragon, and then be eaten by the result! Nobody that isn't utterly desperate would ever attempt such a gamble. I think its also a bit telling that you only really want to compare uttermost highest level spellcasters. Some of the AD&D 8th and 9th (and some even of the 5th-7th) level spells could be a little out there in the right situation, but first of all I think a lot of those uses weren't intended, many of them required specific reading of the spell and a friendly DM, and you neglect the very high costs, limitations, and often permanent negative effects of a lot of high level spell use. Almost all of that is gone in 5e. Heck, all those spells you cite in 2e were LONG casting time spells for the most part, and subject to all the serious limitations of spell-casting. Smart wizards got around those limitations, but they still had to spend resources to do that. And the truth is you barely ever would cast more than one 9th level spell, or even 7th level spell, in one sitting. The problem was memorizing the correct one. This is substantially mitigated in 5e. Maybe you have only 2/1/1 slots for top level, but that means you can cast either of your level 7 spells up to 4 times, a very nice increase in flexibility. Maybe casting Chromatic Orb as a level 9 spell is a bit silly, but I cast it the other day as a level 3 spell, to devastating effect too! Fireball just wasn't appropriate, but one of the big reasons I could afford to memorize Fireball was that I knew I could just cast Chromatic Orb instead if I needed to! I am MUCH more likely to be free to select some of the less commonly used utilities or specialized attack spells simply because I am not stuck HAVING to use them or else be left with a dead slot. I can recall a very large number of times in AD&D when I was running around with half my spell load and they were all useless because things weren't exactly as predicted. This never happens in 5e. So maybe invisibly flying over the orc army and polymorphing one of the BBEG's orc bodyguards into a red dragon isn't really feasible anymore. I am hardly going to shed a tear. Frankly I think this kind of thing was a gimme, it hardly required any sort of cleverness anyhow. The 5e wizard, played with REAL cleverness, still gets the job done quite well, and meanwhile he's steadily contributing to every encounter, something his AD&D brethren very often couldn't do.</blockquote>

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