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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6658319" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think my point is that you're saying the same thing. You are saying &quot;well, Aragorn or Conan&quot; could do this, and my PCs are like them, so I'll set the DC such that they can do it too. Isn't that exactly the same thing? IMHO its really one or the other, either the DC reflects some game world physical considerations that can be determined entirely without reference to the PCs or else its a story-centered DC that exists because it will further the action in the desired way. I mean, remember, 4e still has room for aesthetic sensibility. You can say &quot;well, these are level 3 PCs, they're not really powerful legendary heroes, they probably can't survive a climb up The Mountain of Death.&quot; Story and fictional considerations are not mutually opposed, you just for whatever reason don't want to have the story consideration part be explicit. Instead the DM is supposed to be covert about it. Refer back up to Pemerton's post about the Ouija Board. This is exactly what he was talking about.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6658319, member: 82106"] I think my point is that you're saying the same thing. You are saying "well, Aragorn or Conan" could do this, and my PCs are like them, so I'll set the DC such that they can do it too. Isn't that exactly the same thing? IMHO its really one or the other, either the DC reflects some game world physical considerations that can be determined entirely without reference to the PCs or else its a story-centered DC that exists because it will further the action in the desired way. I mean, remember, 4e still has room for aesthetic sensibility. You can say "well, these are level 3 PCs, they're not really powerful legendary heroes, they probably can't survive a climb up The Mountain of Death." Story and fictional considerations are not mutually opposed, you just for whatever reason don't want to have the story consideration part be explicit. Instead the DM is supposed to be covert about it. Refer back up to Pemerton's post about the Ouija Board. This is exactly what he was talking about. [/QUOTE]

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