Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why does 5E SUCK?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6658339" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, I'm getting sloppy. Of course you probably wouldn't have a DC for some major piece of an adventure. You'd have something like an SC, during the process of which you might meet the Yeti, get caught in an avalanche, need to reach the summit before nightfall to avoid exposure, etc. I'd note that in my conception of SCs there's nothing wrong with 'do or die', every straight-up combat is a do-or-die situation, you win or you die (at the very least there are dire consequences for failure). For whatever inexplicable reason the 4e guidelines on SCs indicated that they should represent less critical situations, but I don't really see a reason to abide by that. It could well be for instance that the Yeti is simply unbeatable in combat, so you better not fail the SC and wind up facing them! Maybe if you do you can turn tail and run, but failure here CAN have the harshest possible consequences. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, the DCs for whatever happens during the challenge? I'd say they can be set as desired, but like I keep saying, narrative consistency still indicates that if something is a 'paragon challenge' then it has to have an overall difficulty that matches. One of the problems I see with the 'objective DC' thing is, you don't really set the overall difficulty of an endeavor by one DC. 4e's DCs are intended to be strung together in a long series. There was never any intention that there would need to be a single very hard to surmount DC that the party would check against, except maybe in some very special situation (IE maybe you get one last chance to survive being lost at night in the blizzard on the mountain, make a hard Endurance check and you don't turn popsicle even after the SC was lost). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, non-casters can gain access to ritual casting, so it CAN in some sense fill the role that 4e gave it, being a way to have a limited form of magic without a caster. You could have something like 'Elric', a guy that doesn't cast spells per-se, he's a fighter, but he does have some quite potent magical resources he can trot out if you give him some time to do it. Not that 4e really emulates Elric exactly any better than other editions do, but the general idea was attainable. Or a battle captain that augments his troops with magic before a fight or during a march. </p><p></p><p>Its just weird that in 5e this subsystem is much more effective for wizards and clerics. A 4e wizard does get it free, and gets some free rituals, but a warlord can acquire rituals for a pretty minor cost, and since they aren't actual combat spells they can cover a lot of ground that might only be useful to that sort of PC, or that are never useful during actual adventuring time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6658339, member: 82106"] Well, I'm getting sloppy. Of course you probably wouldn't have a DC for some major piece of an adventure. You'd have something like an SC, during the process of which you might meet the Yeti, get caught in an avalanche, need to reach the summit before nightfall to avoid exposure, etc. I'd note that in my conception of SCs there's nothing wrong with 'do or die', every straight-up combat is a do-or-die situation, you win or you die (at the very least there are dire consequences for failure). For whatever inexplicable reason the 4e guidelines on SCs indicated that they should represent less critical situations, but I don't really see a reason to abide by that. It could well be for instance that the Yeti is simply unbeatable in combat, so you better not fail the SC and wind up facing them! Maybe if you do you can turn tail and run, but failure here CAN have the harshest possible consequences. Anyway, the DCs for whatever happens during the challenge? I'd say they can be set as desired, but like I keep saying, narrative consistency still indicates that if something is a 'paragon challenge' then it has to have an overall difficulty that matches. One of the problems I see with the 'objective DC' thing is, you don't really set the overall difficulty of an endeavor by one DC. 4e's DCs are intended to be strung together in a long series. There was never any intention that there would need to be a single very hard to surmount DC that the party would check against, except maybe in some very special situation (IE maybe you get one last chance to survive being lost at night in the blizzard on the mountain, make a hard Endurance check and you don't turn popsicle even after the SC was lost). Well, non-casters can gain access to ritual casting, so it CAN in some sense fill the role that 4e gave it, being a way to have a limited form of magic without a caster. You could have something like 'Elric', a guy that doesn't cast spells per-se, he's a fighter, but he does have some quite potent magical resources he can trot out if you give him some time to do it. Not that 4e really emulates Elric exactly any better than other editions do, but the general idea was attainable. Or a battle captain that augments his troops with magic before a fight or during a march. Its just weird that in 5e this subsystem is much more effective for wizards and clerics. A 4e wizard does get it free, and gets some free rituals, but a warlord can acquire rituals for a pretty minor cost, and since they aren't actual combat spells they can cover a lot of ground that might only be useful to that sort of PC, or that are never useful during actual adventuring time. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why does 5E SUCK?
Top