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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6658390" data-attributes="member: 5834">I'd bet you money on it, easily. I'd take your money without a problem. The magic system was a huge point of contention with the new system. You can try to pretend it wasn't, but you would be wrong.I do have a very good idea that it is true. It's pretty apparent in 5E. If the 4E magic system weren't a huge problem, they would have kept it, right?I would say there are bunch of lazy DMs that don't want to learn how to handle the caster-martial disparity.We will see over time if your DM and yourself as the minority opinion as I believe they are. Caster players that prefer magic be powerful in D&D are the majority. The dollar will tell in time won't it? These little debates are amusing. But economic votes are the strongest. We'll see if WotC wins back the lost caster customers with a magic system that allows caster players the power they crave to feel like a D&D wizard.You paint it as you wish. You pretend you don't know the problem with 4E. I'll continue to see clearly what 5E changed and know absolutely that the magic system was THE BIGGEST factor in a new edition. They took the 4E magic system and tossed most of it in the trash. You keep on believing 4E wasn't a failure by WotC regardless of the fact that for the first time in the history of D&D, they were unseated as the top dog in the TTRPG market, by their previous game. The D&D team instead of continuing to build on 4E decided to return to older editions for design inspiration. I guess they did that in your mind just because? They completely scrapped the 4E magic system just because? They went back to Vancian magic just because? There's mountains of evidence the 4E casting system was the main element of contention. WotC all but admitted it with their 5E design goals. I wouldn't be surprised if Mearls outright admitted at some point during the data collection process that the 4E magic system was a huge mistake that they worked hard to correct this edition. But I get it, you don't want to believe that and are using the "You don't know argument", when it is clear by the design choices that returning caster power was a huge part of 5E's goal. Not to the insane 3E level, but definitely back to where magic felt like a powerful force that exceeds the capabilities of mundane swingers of weapons.This debate will be decided by economics. I'd be lying if I said I didn't hope you and your group will be playing E6 if you can't DM for the 5E caster-martial disparity, while my group gets to return to the D&D fold with caster power much closer to what it is was prior. We all like magic as an extremely powerful force in the D&D world.And with that, I bid you good gaming. I know I'm glad to be back in the D&D fold. I missed playing the game with the name I grew up on.</blockquote>

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