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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6658907" data-attributes="member: 2067">Totes.I think our Lost Mine game gives a good insight into the other side of the coin - I recall a certain druid using Speak with Animals and an offering of horseflesh to overcome a room of hostile wolves. You still made Persuasion checks - your Charisma modifier still mattered, and accomplishing your goal was still a matter of non-magical skill checks. Magic just allowed you to apply it in a new situation. That's kind of where I like magic to me - useful, but not so useful it does the job for you. It's a waste of a slot in any situation where there's things to hide behind. It's not doing anything that can't be achieved with a low hedge, a large rock, a column, a hill, or a corner. It doesn't make it any easier to Stealth - it doesn't actually improve your Stealth score in any way, and if you step on a twig while you're invisible, you'll still be found out (even if they take a penalty to hit you - a penalty they'd also take if you stepped on a twig while behind cover). Invisible in 5e doesn't mean you can't be targeted or spotted, it just means you always have something to hide behind. If you're interpreting it differently, you're ramping up its power and nerfing the power of skills, so I don't know why you wold interpret it that way if that is something you don't want. Advantage on Cha checks is useful, but it's not going to make the mage suddenly the best diplomancer in the group. It doesn't make your Cha checks for you. It's, at best, going to make him able to share the moment with a Cha-focused character, and at the significant downside of your enemy being aware that you screwed with their head when the spell ends. I'd rather let the Bard/Paladin/Warlock/Sorcerer just use the Perusade skill, thanks.Sleep ain't bad if the sentry is some piddly little 3-HD guard or something, but 5d8 ain't really a lot of monster hit points. It's more useful as a finisher. Again, only useful if you've got the skills to back it up (it doesn't automatically make Deception or Athletics checks for you).Again, only useful if you've got the skills to back it up (it doesn't automatically make Athletics checks for you).Magic items and casters are apples and oranges.  What is wrong with a caster contributing to the overcoming of obstacles if that's what they want to spend resources on? If they're not ridiculously powerful, they aren't dominating the exploration sphere, and if they're spending all their slots making your party climb and float around, they aren't going to have magic missiles and fireballs and acid arrows, which is making them weaker in other areas. All of this makes me wonder if your group might just be prone to letting magic solve your problems for no reason. If your Altered Self isn't making Deception checks to pass as a drow and your Charmer isn't making Persuasion checks to get the goblin to talk and your Invisible rogue doesn't have to make Stealth checks to sneak, your playstyle is nerfing those skills and enhancing those spells, and it's worth looking into why your group perhaps-unknowingly lets spells substitute for skills and the effects that has on play.</blockquote>

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