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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bluenose" data-source="post: 6658928" data-attributes="member: 49017">As @Abdul pointed out, Robilar was probably the most successful in actualy play of the early characters. Shame he doesn't fit your theory. Also, congratulations on advocating for a purely gamist approach to game design. A bunch of wargamers playing to win thought they recognised balance flaws in the experimental game they were playing and flocked to what seemed the most effective class, their numbers then leading to an abundance of high-level casters, and this justifies casters being more powerful forever.And ot your second point, well, if you're advocating that D&D is only meant to cover that exceptionally narrow range of fantasy where magic is inherently more powerful than mundane ability please don't be shy about making it widely known. I'm sure the people who criticised 4e for only supporting one style of game will be along to come down hard on you very soon. Of course it's possible that the powerful casters you wish to evoke are simply higher level than the non-casters they're more powerful than. but obviously level shouldn't be a measure of power.The logic of the game world is whatever the designers choose it to be. Nothing more. If they choose to make magic more significant than anything else, that's fine; there are games I enjoy playing in settings like that. When they choose to make make more significant than anything else and then pretend that characters without it aren't disadvantaged by that; not playing that again.Presumably you feel the same way when an AoE spell "pops" a large group of low-level creatures in 5e. I think 2e managed, remarkably, to have a longer spell list than 3e. Three volumes of priest spells, four of mage spells (and the Encyclopedia Magica, four volumes of magic items) suggests it managed it, To your first point, what you find there is the caster players complaining that they need more stuff and D&D isn't meant to be played like this with such horrible limits on them. And casting high-level spells when the enemy saves half the time is mean because they've wasted something powerful and not succeeded with it. You may want to show how much sympathy you have for people who fail when they're well aware that they should succeed nearly all the time.</blockquote>

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