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Why does 5E SUCK?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6659015" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, I'd like to note that it was [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] that had a problem with Phantom Steeds, not me. Secondly, I have never said that I thought 4e made magic just be on par with skills. It just spread it around more and made the really most revolutionary capabilities more limited and more high level.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Your interpretation seems to make the spell useless. If not then its still useful, right? In fact it changes the attitude of the NPC to you. That has implications beyond skill checks.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Outside of combat the rules are not nearly so rigid. Unless an enemy is looking for you, or you blow your stealth check by some really significant amount, there's no reason to suppose that an enemy is automatically aware of anything more than that there was a sound/smell/stirring dust/whatever from 'over there'. They might or might not investigate and if they do you could certainly still make another check to try to slip away. This is exactly as it worked in 4e, where outside combat it was largely up to the GM to weigh different factors such as the surroundings, the degree of alertness of the enemy, what sorts of senses they rely on, etc. While invisibility is no guarantee, it is a huge benefit when trying to sneak, and not just because it counts as a form of 'concealment'. </p><p></p><p>Blow your stealth against the ancient red dragon in his lair who constantly looks for thieves and you're probably in big trouble, invisible or not, blow it against some orcs that you're shadowing, not so critical. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Only if I'm planning to stick around and care whether people know I bamboozled a guard with magic. If I'm exiting the castle with the Baron's funds its not such a bad idea. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd think in almost any case where you're lost in a woods this would be quite handy, or are scouting for a fixed location, etc. Beyond that I see no reason why you would need a check if you were say being levitated up to a balcony, or anything like that. Honestly, I haven't used the spell, but I can think of times when I would memorize it and a few situations where if I had it that it would have been handy. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think our DM is particularly giving away anything. I just think the game we are playing is one where the action is pretty grounded. If you were wandering around in the real world with 5e invisibility on you, nobody would notice you, and likewise in our game. Now, obviously invisibility is something that is known to exist in the game world, so there will be SOME people keeping it in mind, but its still a huge boon.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6659015, member: 82106"] Well, I'd like to note that it was [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] that had a problem with Phantom Steeds, not me. Secondly, I have never said that I thought 4e made magic just be on par with skills. It just spread it around more and made the really most revolutionary capabilities more limited and more high level. Your interpretation seems to make the spell useless. If not then its still useful, right? In fact it changes the attitude of the NPC to you. That has implications beyond skill checks. Outside of combat the rules are not nearly so rigid. Unless an enemy is looking for you, or you blow your stealth check by some really significant amount, there's no reason to suppose that an enemy is automatically aware of anything more than that there was a sound/smell/stirring dust/whatever from 'over there'. They might or might not investigate and if they do you could certainly still make another check to try to slip away. This is exactly as it worked in 4e, where outside combat it was largely up to the GM to weigh different factors such as the surroundings, the degree of alertness of the enemy, what sorts of senses they rely on, etc. While invisibility is no guarantee, it is a huge benefit when trying to sneak, and not just because it counts as a form of 'concealment'. Blow your stealth against the ancient red dragon in his lair who constantly looks for thieves and you're probably in big trouble, invisible or not, blow it against some orcs that you're shadowing, not so critical. Only if I'm planning to stick around and care whether people know I bamboozled a guard with magic. If I'm exiting the castle with the Baron's funds its not such a bad idea. I'd think in almost any case where you're lost in a woods this would be quite handy, or are scouting for a fixed location, etc. Beyond that I see no reason why you would need a check if you were say being levitated up to a balcony, or anything like that. Honestly, I haven't used the spell, but I can think of times when I would memorize it and a few situations where if I had it that it would have been handy. I don't think our DM is particularly giving away anything. I just think the game we are playing is one where the action is pretty grounded. If you were wandering around in the real world with 5e invisibility on you, nobody would notice you, and likewise in our game. Now, obviously invisibility is something that is known to exist in the game world, so there will be SOME people keeping it in mind, but its still a huge boon. [/QUOTE]
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