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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bluenose" data-source="post: 6659974" data-attributes="member: 49017">Games where martial characters are as useful as mages (assuming they're close in experience - you are only the second person I've ever seen argue that level doesn't matter, magic is inherently better): Runequest, World of Darkness, Exalted, Heroquest, Savage Worlds, Gurps, Fate, The Dark Eye, Shadowrun, and I could go on. Magic characters can accomplish things martial ones can't; the reverse is also true, and the martial characters are usually much superior in the areas they're good at than the casters can be through using magic.Literature where martial characters aren't inferior to magical ones - harder to assess, since literature rarely lists character level - also exists. The Mahabharata, Spenser's The Faerie Queen, Tamora Pierece's Protector of the Small series, Patricia Wrede's enchanted Forest Chronicles, Peter Beagle's LAst Unicorn has a wizard who accepts he's useless in a situation which needs a hero, Sapkowski's Witcher series has several situations where casters are defeated by non-casters. I could go on. Robilar's effectiveness is probably best demonstrated by the character being more successful at overcoming the challenges of the dungeons than the mages he sometimes accompanied. Also, you're continually misunderstanding the point. The argument I am making is simple. Mundane characters and magical characters shouldn't be the same. They should have different ways of doing things. As long as the characters are equal in (level/experience/ranking/whatever the game uses to measure power) that means they should be equally useful in the hands of a skilled player. The game should not go out of it's way to create a rules set where things that are easy for casters are difficult to impossible for mundane characters and where things that are easy for mundane characters are also easy for casters. And since you challenged me to provide examples of games/literature where magic and mundane characters were on a level footing, how about you provide examples where demonstrably low level characters with magic are clearly superior to high level ones lacking it.</blockquote>

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