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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gilladian" data-source="post: 6660244" data-attributes="member: 2093">Hey, I have to admit I have not followed this whole discussion - I'm not even QUITE sure what's being argued. But I'll give you my impressions of what happens in my game vis-a-vis magic vs skills. AbdulAlhazred (I really hate typing that, Tod), says that 5e's spell descriptions are tighter than 2e's; I would agree that they tend to use language more specifically than in 2e, which makes it easier to make decisions - when they refer to searching for something, they're going to specifically refer to the perception check, unlike in 2e, which might refer to "looking for" something in one spell, and "searching" in another. Neither referred to a specific task with a specific resolution. So 5e is a bit easier to adjudicate in many circumstances. The time they killed off AN owlbear - I think he means the BUGbear in the opening adventure of Phandelver - they had a higher level druid PC with them; a friend joined the game for ONE session, and he misunderstood what level the PCs were - he created a 4th lvl druid, and I let him run it because he was only here that one session - so they had that extra bonus - and it was still a VERY tough fight. My notes for the encounter read as follows:"Continuing up the main passage, Doodle examined the side route, and decide it was too risky to climb. She spotted the goblin on the bridge , but it did not see her (she made her perception check, it failed its passive perception vs her stealth). Daringly, Alzardel and Theron both firebolted the goblin, and killed it without any alert being given. At this point they realized that they needed light for their fighter (Gia) to be able to see in the caves. Sindre (the 4th level druid) cast Darkvision on her and was able to allow her to see in the dark. For himself, he wildshaped into an owl. He was able to fly into the main caves and see all the goblins, and locate Sildar where he was imprisoned. (in this case, I did feel I was too generous allowing the druid to scout, but I was not expecting the situation, and did not challenge him much; he made at least one stealth check to avoid being spotted by the goblins as he flew around). With this scouting info, the whole group decided it was too risky to take on either group with the other free to react. Theron threw a rope up to the bridge, and Sindre flew up the passage to the west, then reverted to his own form; he threw thornspike and locked the goblins down. Then the whole group went up the trail into the eastern cave - the three goblins there were not quite surprised, as they'd heard the goblins yelling about the thornspike, but were not expecting an assault. Combat was joined; Gia got hit by one goblin, but two of the three fell swiftly, and the party was able to position themselves for the arrival of the bugbear Klarg and Ripper the Wolf. Alzardel slept the goblins, Theron finished off the last of the first three goblins, and Doodle threw handfuls of ball-bearings in Klarg's path, causing him to fall prone and not be able to rush into combat. Ripper lept over his fallen master and attacked, however. Gia, Theron and Doodle engaged him; he bit Gia savagely, but fell to Gia's blade. Klarg rose and advanced. He nearly struck Doodle with his first blow, and the terrified thief retreated. Sindre had two cure potions; he passed them off to Theron, who drank one and then passed the second on to Gia. She drank the second, and they both advanced after the halfling to engage the bugbear. Alzardel finally hit with his firebolt, putting the first damage on the bugbear. Klarg hit Sindre, and badly wounded the hobbyt. Gia and Theron both landed blows, and were finally able to slay the brute. They then kicked one of the sleeping goblins awake, and quickly questioned it about where Sildar and Gundren were. It told them that Gundren had been sent to Cragmaw Castle, at the behest of King Grol. They managed to get rough directions from him to Cragmaw Castle before slaying him."I think it was a good mix of spells and skill use here; intimidation by the fighter got them good info from the goblin - their real advantage was in the Druid's higher level spells and HP. If he'd not been there to take a blow or two from the bugbear, as well, that fight would have slain at least one PC. Theron (elf fighter) was already hurt by the goblins, and would have been killed by any blow either Ripper or Klarg landed. Gia (human fighter) wasn't much better off.And they never killed a dragon - Alzardel is BOASTING with that! They DID capture Venomfang behind a wall of force - which was something they found and turned into a very clever trap. The tower of an ancient wizard was encased in a wall of force, and they figured out how to raise and lower it with a lever. They used their wits, good timing, Alzardel's alarm spell, and the Rogue's silver tongue (and its own youthful naivete) to lure it to the seemingly wide-open and harmless upper roof of the tower, then retriggered the wall of force, trapping it there. The PCs who were trapped with it then fled down the tower stairs (their henchman cleric dying in the dragon's breath as they fled) and barely escaped via use of careful timing to get them out of the tower and the forcewall back up while the dragon was busily destroying the tower a stone at a time. So, ancient and powerful magic. Yes, magic won the day, but it was in many ways the rogue's ability to convice the dragon to follow them to the tower for a chance at treasure that was the real success. Fnally, the bugbear king - Alzardel did fight him single-handedly, but a) I toned King Grol down a good bit to avoid a quick and brutal slaughter, b) he had a potion of firebreath with him that he used to very good effect, and c) when King Grol tried to call his wolf into battle with him (treachery!) the rogue shot it and critted, removing it from the equation. And if I recall, Alzardel was one HP from death at the end - if at any time I had rolled slightly better damage, the battle would have gone the other way.So, maybe I am a wimpy DM, but we all had LOTS of fun in every one of these encounters, and I doubt anyone feels that they got a "walkover" in any of the contests.</blockquote>

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