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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6667681" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I wasn't trying to say 4e lacks complexity; I totally agree that it's a complex game. I just don't understand why &quot;I have to remember to add a handful of temporary bonuses/penalties&quot; is the reason people call 4e a complex game. &quot;Exception-based mechanics,&quot; that I could understand. Even &quot;heavy emphasis on positioning&quot; or &quot;powers with well-defined keywords.&quot;&nbsp;Well, first, I'll note I said &quot;hundred+,&quot; not &quot;hundreds&quot;--perhaps that came across as &quot;one or more hundreds,&quot; but I meant it as &quot;at least 100 pages.&quot; Further, when I said that, I was considering all the spells that have been added from the adventures, as well as those found in the PHB, though I admit I may have been exaggerating the effect there. The PHB alone is 78 pages (from page 211 to 289); I'd thought it was more. &quot;Hundred+&quot; is certainly an exaggeration if you consider only the PHB, but the fact is, the PHB spends more pages on spells than it spends on all character classes combined (page 45 to page 119), and that's with nearly a full-page image at the start of each class entry and ignoring all pages that aren't specifically and only about the spells themselves (ignoring all rules-pages about casting spells, spell areas, spell lists, etc.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6667681, member: 6790260"] I wasn't trying to say 4e lacks complexity; I totally agree that it's a complex game. I just don't understand why "I have to remember to add a handful of temporary bonuses/penalties" is [I]the[/I] reason people call 4e a complex game. "Exception-based mechanics," that I could understand. Even "heavy emphasis on positioning" or "powers with well-defined keywords." Well, first, I'll note I said "hundred+," not "hundreds"--perhaps that came across as "one or more hundreds," but I meant it as "at least 100 pages." Further, when I said that, I was considering all the spells that have been added from the adventures, as well as those found in the PHB, though I admit I may have been exaggerating the effect there. The PHB alone is 78 pages (from page 211 to 289); I'd thought it was more. "Hundred+" is certainly an exaggeration if you consider only the PHB, but the fact is, the PHB spends more pages on spells than it spends on all character classes combined (page 45 to page 119), and that's with nearly a full-page image at the start of each class entry and ignoring all pages that aren't specifically and only about the spells themselves (ignoring all rules-pages about casting spells, spell areas, spell lists, etc.) [/QUOTE]

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