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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7504539" data-attributes="member: 22779">Yup, you get 2 extra ASI's.&nbsp; The second one is at FOURTEENTH level.&nbsp; Gimme a break.&nbsp; You're going to compare 2 ASI's to fourteen levels of paladin or ranger casting?&nbsp; FFS, at 14th level, your barbarian is FLYING.&nbsp; How's that for an exploration pillar ability.&nbsp; Sure, it's 5 times per day, but, sheesh.Again, the extra attacks don't kick in until 11th level.&nbsp; Most campaigns end before this (or cap out around here).&nbsp; The vast, vast majority of play is in the single digit levels.&nbsp; I have to wait 75% of play time just so I can finally get that 3rd attack - something the monk has been doing since 3rd level?&nbsp; Again, whoopee.For me, there's a couple of reasonably easy fixes to this.&nbsp; Could go either way.1.&nbsp; Fighters gain additional attacks earlier.&nbsp; 2nd attack at 4th level and 3rd attack at 8th would go a huge way towards actually making the fighter &quot;king of combat&quot;.&nbsp; or2.&nbsp; Fighters gain a couple of extra skills.&nbsp; Say a bonus skill at 3rd and 5th.&nbsp; Again, that would pretty much do it.&nbsp; Makes the fights actually decent skill monkeys and let's them be reasonably effective outside of combat.Either one would be fine by me.&nbsp; But the way it is now, fighters are just so vanilla and boring.&nbsp; There's so little actually there.&nbsp; And I don't really understand it.&nbsp; If the argument is that fighters are trading combat effectiveness for out of combat ability, fine and dandy, actually MAKE them the best at combat.&nbsp; Or, don't penalize players for choosing to play a fighter just so you can be &quot;balanced&quot; against the other fighty classes but, not really because while you do equivalent effectiveness in combat, you are far less effective out of combat.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7504539, member: 22779"] Yup, you get 2 extra ASI's. The second one is at FOURTEENTH level. Gimme a break. You're going to compare 2 ASI's to fourteen levels of paladin or ranger casting? FFS, at 14th level, your barbarian is FLYING. How's that for an exploration pillar ability. Sure, it's 5 times per day, but, sheesh. Again, the extra attacks don't kick in until 11th level. Most campaigns end before this (or cap out around here). The vast, vast majority of play is in the single digit levels. I have to wait 75% of play time just so I can finally get that 3rd attack - something the monk has been doing since 3rd level? Again, whoopee. For me, there's a couple of reasonably easy fixes to this. Could go either way. 1. Fighters gain additional attacks earlier. 2nd attack at 4th level and 3rd attack at 8th would go a huge way towards actually making the fighter "king of combat". or 2. Fighters gain a couple of extra skills. Say a bonus skill at 3rd and 5th. Again, that would pretty much do it. Makes the fights actually decent skill monkeys and let's them be reasonably effective outside of combat. Either one would be fine by me. But the way it is now, fighters are just so vanilla and boring. There's so little actually there. And I don't really understand it. If the argument is that fighters are trading combat effectiveness for out of combat ability, fine and dandy, actually MAKE them the best at combat. Or, don't penalize players for choosing to play a fighter just so you can be "balanced" against the other fighty classes but, not really because while you do equivalent effectiveness in combat, you are far less effective out of combat. [/QUOTE]

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