Why does a SciFi RPG "need" skills?

[Morrus]

Or not, if the needs of the plot outweigh the needs of the characters...

If you really look, however, what goes on in Old Trek is relatively well distributed. Everybody can shoot a phaser? Sure- everybody in the US armed forces gets weapon training, and a phaser is a lot simpler to fire accurately the a gun.

All branches use tricorders, all bridge officers learn to operate bridge systems...

But when Jerry-rigging a phaser or tricorders to do something other than its intended purpose, usually, its in the hands of a science officer or engineer...sometimes with help or tools from one of the other branches. Or a bystander.

That brings to mind the common "no skill roll needed for routine tasks; only roll when doing something unusual or difficult" mechanics. So you don't make a skill roll to use a tricorder to detect a mineral deposit. You do make one to jury-rig it into an emergency transporter beacon because you lost your communicator.

 

[Janx]

Or not, if the needs of the plot outweigh the needs of the characters...

If you really look, however, what goes on in Old Trek is relatively well distributed. Everybody can shoot a phaser? Sure- everybody in the US armed forces gets weapon training, and a phaser is a lot simpler to fire accurately the a gun.

All branches use tricorders, all bridge officers learn to operate bridge systems...

But when Jerry-rigging a phaser or tricorders to do something other than its intended purpose, usually, its in the hands of a science officer or engineer...sometimes with help or tools from one of the other branches. Or a bystander.

In some ways, that's covered by the task being required to be done/managed by the character with most applicable specialization over that area (spock or Scotty). So with Spock present, it's a DC10 task to accomplish. With just Kirk and Bones trying to jigger a phaser, it'll be DC15.

What I'm seeing is the possibility for a Sci-Fi game to define classes as your area of specialization (ala Trek). For instance: Medical, Science, Engineering, Security, Comms, Navigation, Command

Perhaps some of them get better BABs for shooting and hitting. And perhaps they get bonusses for tasks in their specialization. But they can also attempt anything outside their specialization (kind of like the Star Wars Saga Edition rule for untrained skills) at a reasonable, but lesser level of competence.

So, at Level 10 Doctor, I make my Doctoring rolls at +10. But I get +5 to any non-doctory things because as a Level 10 character, I'm well-versed in other topics, like that refresher course I had 2 years ago on Shuttle piloting.

 

[Morrus]

In some ways, that's covered by the task being required to be done/managed by the character with most applicable specialization over that area (spock or Scotty). So with Spock present, it's a DC10 task to accomplish. With just Kirk and Bones trying to jigger a phaser, it'll be DC15.

Surely it's just DC 15 and Spock has +5 skill ranks?

 

[Janx]

That brings to mind the common "no skill roll needed for routine tasks; only roll when doing something unusual or difficult" mechanics. So you don't make a skill roll to use a tricorder to detect a mineral deposit. You do make one to jury-rig it into an emergency transporter beacon because you lost your communicator.

And that might have been part of the OP's point from so long ago. Old D&D apparently didn't have a skill system.

So it was sort of assumed that the PCs could start a campfire or tie some knots in Rope to tie a prisoner up well enough.

While the RPG industry didn't go that way, it is POSSIBLE to design a sci-fi RPG that is class based with minimal mechanics for Skills.

 

[Janx]

Surely it's just DC 15 and Spock has +5 skill ranks?

potato pahtahtoh

The point is, all the Level 10 PCs have a decent chance to succeed, but Spock is best suited to it. Nobody is stuck with a crap DC even though their PC is level 10 because they didn't spend skill points in that one area.

 

[Scorpio616]

In Sci Fi, there is generally more to know and direct charge the gates violence will be less viable as many foes will have access to weaponry to rival what only Archmages, Demigods and Ancient dragons have in Fantasy settings. How well you shoot and fight might matter, but how well you can keep your ships cloaking device and energy shields working WILL matter

 

[billd91]

In other words, why can't we have "OD&D in Space" or "C&C in Space" or "AD&D in Space" with just a simple class system? Each character class would have a short list of things it could do, much the same way that fighters or clerics or magic-users or thieves each have a short list of things it can do.

Sure, you can. Check out virtually any of the Star Wars games for an example. However, one thing about characters in a modern/future setting compared to medieval-style or fantasy settings is that their skills tend to be a lot more eclectic. They may have plenty that fit their specific profession, but there tend to be a lot of idiosyncratic standouts whether it's Data playing the violin and painting, Bev Crusher tap dancing, Will Riker playing jazz on the trombone, Sulu's botany, or even Sun Boy's familiarity with holographic D&D, the 30th century night life, and nuclear engineering. A skill system of some sort that isn't too tightly tied to class enables that sort of character development and it seems particularly well-suited to any setting that implies fairly easy access to educational opportunities and diversity.

 

[Janx]

So in my imaginary Star Trek RPG that I just made up to suit the OP's request:

pick a class which represents a field of expertise (Science, Engineering, Security, Operations)

Your PC gets a bonus to any task equal to his level in areas involving the field of expertise (aka Class Skill Checks)

Any task outside of the field of expertise (ex. Bones shooting a Phaser) the bonus is equal to 1/2 his level, round down.

So a a Level 1 Doctor can be described as +1/+0 to denote his class bonus, and non-class skills bonus

A Level 10 Doctor would be +10/+5

I suppose, in keeping with d20, the same six Attributes could be used (Str, Con, Dex, Int, Wis, Cha), and the GM would determine which attribute was most applicable (defaulting to highest bonus in a tie), and determining if the task was in-Class or not (allowing for some appeal from the player).

And that would be that for character creation and class explanation. Probably some verbiage would be needed to explain what types of activities counts as Engineering versus Operations (I made that more generic to cover Helm, Comms, etc but that might not be a great idea).

I suspect this system would work for SG-1, too, with the addition of a Historian class to cover Daniel Jackson.

the standard HP and AC mechanics should work for combat well enough. It seems everybody's going to hit like a Figher or a Wizard

 

[Janx]

Sure, you can. Check out virtually any of the Star Wars games for an example. However, one thing about characters in a modern/future setting compared to medieval-style or fantasy settings is that their skills tend to be a lot more eclectic. They may have plenty that fit their specific profession, but there tend to be a lot of idiosyncratic standouts whether it's Data playing the violin and painting, Bev Crusher tap dancing, Will Riker playing jazz on the trombone, Sulu's botany, or even Sun Boy's familiarity with holographic D&D, the 30th century night life, and nuclear engineering. A skill system of some sort that isn't too tightly tied to class enables that sort of character development and it seems particularly well-suited to any setting that implies fairly easy access to educational opportunities and diversity.

And this is probably why Sci-Fi RPGs tended toward skill-based systems.

In practice, I suspect everybody spends their skill points on "class" related things. Nobody wastes points on Tuba or Zumba lessons.

Personally, in skill-based systems, I'd like to see a deliberate allocation of "extraneous" skill points to be used on anything NOT job-related to encourage such well-rounded-ness.

 

[billd91]

And this is probably why Sci-Fi RPGs tended toward skill-based systems.

In practice, I suspect everybody spends their skill points on "class" related things. Nobody wastes points on Tuba or Zumba lessons.

Personally, in skill-based systems, I'd like to see a deliberate allocation of "extraneous" skill points to be used on anything NOT job-related to encourage such well-rounded-ness.

Call of Cthulhu works pretty well for this. You get skill points based on your Education for your professional skills, skill points based on your Intelligence for anything else. Cyberpunk 2020 (a class-based system with a lot of skill permeability) also allotted you 40 skill points for your profession and Int + Ref (?) for non-profession skills.