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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5332196" data-attributes="member: 35909">Even giving monk wisdom to hit instead of strength for FREE (ie, not as a bonus feat option) won't do jack to solve their MAD.&nbsp; They still need strength for damage and combat maneuvers.&nbsp; At least...considering the whole martial arts &quot;angle&quot; and all the bonus feat options they have related to the maneuvers, I thought they were supposed to be good at them.&nbsp; Maybe I'm crazy.Look at what Pathfinder did to help out the Paladin's MAD (which, IMO, was never even as bad as a monk's anyway: You only really need Wis 14, not like an extra spell slot or 2 will matter much; dex and int are fairly safe dump stats).&nbsp; Paladins completely and utterly dumped wisdom from their &quot;good abilities to have&quot; list.&nbsp; Nothing, nothing at all other than will saves (which got bumped to good progression anyway) and some class skills use it any more.&nbsp; Wisdom is actually a major dump stat for a PF Paladin IME.&nbsp; That's what monks need.&nbsp; Pick a stat, and realign the class features to make that stat completely unimportant, so you can focus your ability scores on &quot;only&quot; 3 major areas.&nbsp; I wouldn't mind seeing strength become unimportant for a Monk, both to stand out from every other high str melee brute and to better fit the &quot;mystical&quot; superhuman wuxia image.&nbsp; To do that, you need to make str irrelevant on attack, damage, and combat maneuver checks, at a bare minimum.&nbsp; And it should NOT cost feats.&nbsp; I believe I posted my basic idea for shifting these to wisdom-based rolls earlier in this thread...And we come full circle again...I do not like having to restrict my attack descriptions as a monk to ONLY punches, kicks, or wherever the magic trinket happens to reside.&nbsp; The whole freaking point of unarmed strike is it encomapsses your whole body, your body itself is the weapon, no matter which portion of it you happen ot be striking with.&nbsp; I get that mechanically there's no real difference, but I still hate it.&nbsp; Why can't there just be a robe, or a fairly priced amulet of mighty fists, or whatever?&nbsp; Why is that so much to ask for?!&nbsp; Did Paizo have a change of heart and see the light with the printing of the APG, that monks deserve fairly priced magic enhancements?&nbsp; Why can't they just admit they were wrong and errata the bloody amulet, then?&nbsp; WotC implicitly admitted Fighter sucked by printing Warblade so we could use that instead, rather than just tweak the Fighter.&nbsp; Spellthief sucked, so instead of boosting the class, they &quot;patched&quot; it with the Master Spellthief feat to make the class palatable.&nbsp; And so on...&nbsp; Why is Paizo following in those terrible footsteps?/bolded anger textAnd sanely priced, hopefully.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5332196, member: 35909"] Even giving monk wisdom to hit instead of strength for FREE (ie, not as a bonus feat option) won't do jack to solve their MAD. They still need strength for damage and combat maneuvers. At least...considering the whole martial arts "angle" and all the bonus feat options they have related to the maneuvers, I thought they were supposed to be good at them. Maybe I'm crazy. Look at what Pathfinder did to help out the Paladin's MAD (which, IMO, was never even as bad as a monk's anyway: You only really need Wis 14, not like an extra spell slot or 2 will matter much; dex and int are fairly safe dump stats). Paladins completely and utterly dumped wisdom from their "good abilities to have" list. Nothing, nothing at all other than will saves (which got bumped to good progression anyway) and some class skills use it any more. Wisdom is actually a major dump stat for a PF Paladin IME. That's what monks need. Pick a stat, and realign the class features to make that stat completely unimportant, so you can focus your ability scores on "only" 3 major areas. I wouldn't mind seeing strength become unimportant for a Monk, both to stand out from every other high str melee brute and to better fit the "mystical" superhuman wuxia image. To do that, you need to make str irrelevant on attack, damage, and combat maneuver checks, at a bare minimum. And it should NOT cost feats. I believe I posted my basic idea for shifting these to wisdom-based rolls earlier in this thread... And we come full circle again... [b]I do not like having to restrict my attack descriptions as a monk to ONLY punches, kicks, or wherever the magic trinket happens to reside. The whole freaking point of unarmed strike is it encomapsses your whole body, your body itself is the weapon, no matter which portion of it you happen ot be striking with. I get that mechanically there's no real difference, but I still hate it. Why can't there just be a robe, or a fairly priced amulet of mighty fists, or whatever? Why is that so much to ask for?! Did Paizo have a change of heart and see the light with the printing of the APG, that monks deserve fairly priced magic enhancements? Why can't they just admit they were wrong and errata the bloody amulet, then? WotC implicitly admitted Fighter sucked by printing Warblade so we could use that instead, rather than just tweak the Fighter. Spellthief sucked, so instead of boosting the class, they "patched" it with the Master Spellthief feat to make the class palatable. And so on... Why is Paizo following in those terrible footsteps?[/b] /bolded anger text And sanely priced, hopefully. [/QUOTE]

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