Why does the Warmace (CW) have a -1 penalty to AC?

[DrSpunj]

I don't have my books with me, but here's what I'd emailed a player of mine who was interested in the weapon:

> WarMace 25 gp, 1d12 damage, Crits on 20 for x2, weighs 10 lbs and does
> Bludgeoning damage; it can be wielded as a two-handed martial weapon but
> requires the exotic weapon proficiency group to wield as a one-handed weapon.
> Anyone wielding a warmace (in 1 or 2 hands) takes a -1 penalty to AC because
> the weight of the weapon makes it difficult to recover quickly from swinging
> it.

Now, this setup is very similar to a Bastard Sword which can be wielded in 2 hands as a Martial weapon but requires the Exotic Weapon Prof feat to wield in a single hand.

The Bastard sword does 1d10 damage (1 step less than the Warmace's d12) but has a better crit range (19-20/x2, 1 step better than the Warmace's 20/x2).

I can't believe Bludgeoning is so much better than Slashing that the Warmace is saddled with the -1 penalty to AC, so what gives?

I like a lot of diversity in my games, and that certainly extends to weapons. I was excited when my player came to me asking if his character could use this weapon as his Athame (modified AU/3.5 game) but I want to make sure he's not being penalized overmuch with the -1 to AC for using it.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

DrSpunj

 

[reanjr]

I don't have my books with me, but here's what I'd emailed a player of mine who was interested in the weapon:

> WarMace 25 gp, 1d12 damage, Crits on 20 for x2, weighs 10 lbs and does
> Bludgeoning damage; it can be wielded as a two-handed martial weapon but
> requires the exotic weapon proficiency group to wield as a one-handed weapon.
> Anyone wielding a warmace (in 1 or 2 hands) takes a -1 penalty to AC because
> the weight of the weapon makes it difficult to recover quickly from swinging
> it.

Now, this setup is very similar to a Bastard Sword which can be wielded in 2 hands as a Martial weapon but requires the Exotic Weapon Prof feat to wield in a single hand.

The Bastard sword does 1d10 damage (1 step less than the Warmace's d12) but has a better crit range (19-20/x2, 1 step better than the Warmace's 20/x2).

I can't believe Bludgeoning is so much better than Slashing that the Warmace is saddled with the -1 penalty to AC, so what gives?

I like a lot of diversity in my games, and that certainly extends to weapons. I was excited when my player came to me asking if his character could use this weapon as his Athame (modified AU/3.5 game) but I want to make sure he's not being penalized overmuch with the -1 to AC for using it.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

DrSpunj

The -1 AC, in my opinion, is a stupid rule. It is unnecessary for game balance, doesn't make sense for the weapon in the context of the rules, and adds excess chafe on the system. I'd just ignore it.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

The designers probably figured that the increase from 1d10 to 1d12 was worth more than then crit. I disagree; however, I don't like the warmace as written. I made it 1d10/x3, with no AC penalty.

 

[DrSpunj]

The designers probably figured that the increase from 1d10 to 1d12 was worth more than then crit. I disagree...

That may well be the case. <shrug>

I'm not in a position to run the numbers right now but wouldn't expect a direct comparison between those two weapons would merit the -1 to AC to the Warmace.

Does anyone have access to The Complete Warrior to make sure I have the stats right? I'll check when I get home if no one is able to confirm what I've posted.

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[shilsen]

Does anyone have access to The Complete Warrior to make sure I have the stats right? I'll check when I get home if no one is able to confirm what I've posted.

Yes, you have the stats correct. And I agree that it doesn't merit the -1 to AC.

 

[Scharlata]

[...]Does anyone have access to The Complete Warrior to make sure I have the stats right?[...]

Hi!
Stats and quotes are right, but EWP group (???) . IIRC, there's no such thing as EWP group.

It's the only weapon I remember that has this kind of quirk (-1 AC penalty).

Kind regards.

 

[DrSpunj]

Hi!

Howdy!

Stats and quotes are right, but EWP group (???) . IIRC, there's no such thing as EWP group.

Not in Core, no, but I'm using an adapted/modified version of Unearthed Arcana's Weapon Proficiency Groups variant, so there is indeed an EWP group IMG. Check the link in my sig for all the details if interested, but I'll apologize for the slip up. I tried mentally converting everything relevant for this post back to Core only; obviously that little part slipped through!

It sounds like I'll be stripping away the -1 penalty to AC. I don't think the player will be upset.

Thanks!

DrSpunj

 

[Scharlata]

[...] adapted/modified version of Unearthed Arcana's Weapon Proficiency Groups variant, [...]

Ah!

It sounds like I'll be stripping away the -1 penalty to AC. I don't think the player will be upset.

Go for it!

 

[xazil]

Perhaps the designers also noticed that the warmace was one of the few weapons whose average damage actually goes up if monkey grip is used versus doing a simple two point power attack.

 

[Coredump]

If I recall correctly, there is another EW in the CW that weighs 25#, and does not have the same difficulty to weild.

Check out the other large mass weapons in CW, I think it was a hammer.

Comparing the two made no sense whatsoever.

xazil,
could you explain what you mean? Thanks.