D&D (2024) Variant TWFing and changing Nick (sorry, Nicks)

Xeviat

Dungeon Mistress, she/her
5.5 did a lot to make TWFing better, but it didn't go in the direction I wanted. So, here are my TWFing house rules that I've been using for a while, adjusted for 5.5.

DUAL WIELDING
When you take the Attack action, you can choose to dual wield. One hand is your primary and one hand is your off-hand. When you make an attack with a light weapon in your primary hand, you can make an additional attack with a different light weapon in your off-hand. Your off-hand attack does not add your ability modifier to damage, unless it is negative, nor does it benefit from weapon masteries, if any. If you have extra attack, you can make an off-hand attack for each primary attack, and you can declare which hand is primary and which is off-hand with each primary attack.

For instance, if you are wielding a short sword and a dagger, you can make a primary attack with your shortsword and an off-hand attack with a dagger, or you could make a primary attack with your shortsword and then draw and throw a dagger with your off-hand. If you had Extra Attack, you could make your first primary attack with your shortsword (with an off-hand dagger attack) and then your second primary attack with your dagger (with an off-hand shortsword attack).

The change here is letting extra attack add off-hand attacks. 2d6+Mod great sword is equivalent to 1d6+Mod+1d6 from two shortswords. Being able to use two magic weapons and stack damage bonuses is balanced with a two-handed weapon Wielder getting a belt of giant strength or similar item.

Then there's the feats:

TWO WEAPON FIGHTING
Fighting Style Feat
When you dual wield, your attacks can be made with one-handed weapons.

This lets TWFers use 1d8 weapons, effectively getting +1 damage per attack. Since they get to make 2 attacks for each attack, this is equivalent to duelist's +2 damage. It also differentiates TWFing warriors from others; warriors can use bigger weapons.

DUAL WIELDING MASTER
(Replaced Dual Wielder)
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Strength or Dexterity 13+)

You gain the following benefits.

Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Ambidexterity. When you take the Attack action on your turn and choose to dual wield, you can apply your ability modifier to the damage of your off-hand attacks.

Off-Hand Mastery. You are able to use your weapon masteries with your off-hand weapon attacks.

This is comparable to Great Weapon Master. Dual Wielding Master allows you to add your ability modifier to off-hand attacks, which is going to be +3-+5 normally. Great Weapon Master adds your proficiency to Heavy Weapon attacks on your turn, which is a bonus of +2-+6. The bonus action attack on crit or reducing a target to 0 I think is comparable to getting to add mastery to off-hand attacks.

Last is my Nick change. First, scimitars and any future 1d6 weapons with Nick will get something else (I might give Scimitars cleave for a sweeping dervish attack theme and since there's no cleave one-handed weapons; also considering making scimitars not light and boosting them to 1d8 because they're way bigger than shortswords). Then, here's Nick:

Nick
When you dual wield, you can make off-hand attacks with a Nick weapon even if your primary weapon attacks are made with a non-light one-handed weapon.

This allows for Rapier/Dagger combos, or throwing daggers with your off-hand. 1d8+Mod+1d4 is equivalent to 1d6+Mod+1d6.

I want to fit in a "Gain +1 AC if you forgo making off-hand attacks" somewhere. That might need to be a Dual Wielding Master feat ability, as adequately using a parrying dagger might take extra practice.

Also, this is all coupled with me changing many "when you hit" spell and ability damage boost to "once per round when you hit on your turn", like the Hex and Hunter's Mark playtest versions. Those versions actually scale well, as you get more chances to proc them as you get more attacks.

What do you think?
 

log in or register to remove this ad


I like it. - I'm particularly in favour of giving scimitars a reason to be wielded along with a shield or with the use of the other hand, which were both more common styles than using two scimitars at once.
 

Xeviat

Dungeon Mistress, she/her
I like it. - I'm particularly in favour of giving scimitars a reason to be wielded along with a shield or with the use of the other hand, which were both more common styles than using two scimitars at once.
Yeah, two scimitars is a Drizzt thing, not their only thing.
 

Xeviat

Dungeon Mistress, she/her
Two-Weapon Fighting needs a boost/change because it still ends up being strong at low levels, fine at mid levels, and bad at high levels. This primarily affects fighters, with their 3rd and 4th attacks, and Dual Wielder kind of becomes a feat tax to boot.

My version makes it so it's always comparable with Great Weapon Fighting while still being different.
 

mellored

Legend
Two-Weapon Fighting needs a boost/change because it still ends up being strong at low levels, fine at mid levels, and bad at high levels. This primarily affects fighters, with their 3rd and 4th attacks, and Dual Wielder kind of becomes a feat tax to boot.

My version makes it so it's always comparable with Great Weapon Fighting while still being different.
Dex is still better than Str.

So by making them "even", you're actually making TWF stronger than GWF.

Also, more attacks is still more weapon masteries. Especially for the fighter who can slow and push with any weapon.


That said, this isn't crazy strong or anything.
 

Xeviat

Dungeon Mistress, she/her
Dex is still better than Str.

So by making them "even", you're actually making TWF stronger than GWF.

Also, more attacks is still more weapon masteries. Especially for the fighter who can slow and push with any weapon.


That said, this isn't crazy strong or anything.
I specifically have the offhand attacks not getting masteries (since I'm baking in nick). You need to spend a feat to get masteries on offhand.
 

clearstream

(He, Him)
5.5 did a lot to make TWFing better, but it didn't go in the direction I wanted. So, here are my TWFing house rules that I've been using for a while, adjusted for 5.5.



The change here is letting extra attack add off-hand attacks. 2d6+Mod great sword is equivalent to 1d6+Mod+1d6 from two shortswords. Being able to use two magic weapons and stack damage bonuses is balanced with a two-handed weapon Wielder getting a belt of giant strength or similar item.

Then there's the feats:



This lets TWFers use 1d8 weapons, effectively getting +1 damage per attack. Since they get to make 2 attacks for each attack, this is equivalent to duelist's +2 damage. It also differentiates TWFing warriors from others; warriors can use bigger weapons.



This is comparable to Great Weapon Master. Dual Wielding Master allows you to add your ability modifier to off-hand attacks, which is going to be +3-+5 normally. Great Weapon Master adds your proficiency to Heavy Weapon attacks on your turn, which is a bonus of +2-+6. The bonus action attack on crit or reducing a target to 0 I think is comparable to getting to add mastery to off-hand attacks.

Last is my Nick change. First, scimitars and any future 1d6 weapons with Nick will get something else (I might give Scimitars cleave for a sweeping dervish attack theme and since there's no cleave one-handed weapons; also considering making scimitars not light and boosting them to 1d8 because they're way bigger than shortswords). Then, here's Nick:



This allows for Rapier/Dagger combos, or throwing daggers with your off-hand. 1d8+Mod+1d4 is equivalent to 1d6+Mod+1d6.

I want to fit in a "Gain +1 AC if you forgo making off-hand attacks" somewhere. That might need to be a Dual Wielding Master feat ability, as adequately using a parrying dagger might take extra practice.

Also, this is all coupled with me changing many "when you hit" spell and ability damage boost to "once per round when you hit on your turn", like the Hex and Hunter's Mark playtest versions. Those versions actually scale well, as you get more chances to proc them as you get more attacks.

What do you think?
As noted in the thread I started before I knew to look for this one, I end up feeling it doesn't need changing. Motivations for requiring using an off-hand seem to come down to aesthetics, and to hedge out dual-sword-and-board. Mechanics changes could simply aim at the latter.
 



Split the Hoard


Split the Hoard
Negotiate, demand, or steal the loot you desire!

A competitive card game for 2-5 players
Remove ads

Top