D&D 5E (2024) How do you rule using a Hand Crossbow with a nick weapon

[Plaguescarred]

To me drawing and equipping are synonymous, so is unequiping or stowing.

One indication of this is the Throw property referring to drawing, which i don't think you also have to equip it before throwing it, otherwise that would mean you can't do so as Bonus Action.

 

[Nikosandros]

Is it me or all those rules about fighting with two weapons. crossbows, equipping weapons, etc. are needlessly fiddly and annoying?

 

[Deset Gled]

Is it me or all those rules about fighting with two weapons. crossbows, equipping weapons, etc. are needlessly fiddly and annoying?

I found 2014 (vanilla, no expansions) to be fairly straightforward, although without as many options. As I'm getting into 2024 it's giving me 3e vibes without the 3e attention to detail.

 

[Charlaquin]

Thanks. Also, grr. First using "Utilize" as an action name, and now hiding critical rules in the glossary.

I realize I'm late to the 2014 vs 2024 debate but I'm really starting to think the only good thing to come out of 5e2024 was the revised monk.

Also, at a first glance this does make Quick Draw completely superfluous.

Oh, boy… You’re not going to like this, but a lot of critical rules are in the glossary. It’s not just a reference section, it’s where the specifics of the rules being referenced actually “live.” Most of the new PHB is written like a learn to play guide, with specific rules terms pointing players to the appropriate glossary entry.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Thanks. Also, grr. First using "Utilize" as an action name, and now hiding critical rules in the glossary.

I realize I'm late to the 2014 vs 2024 debate but I'm really starting to think the only good thing to come out of 5e2024 was the revised monk.

Also, at a first glance this does make Quick Draw completely superfluous.

No, if you want to switch fro two weapons to bow and back, it comes in quite handy.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Is it me or all those rules about fighting with two weapons. crossbows, equipping weapons, etc. are needlessly fiddly and annoying?

Yes. It is you...

... of course not. The rules should just be: "You can swap weapons withing reason"

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Is it me or all those rules about fighting with two weapons. crossbows, equipping weapons, etc. are needlessly fiddly and annoying?

Yes ... and no. Let me start by saying that for 95% of players, and for 95% of use-cases*, the rules work great! Because most people aren't going to care too much, and they aren't going to be constantly sheathing and unsheathing weapons during their attack.

And I would say that while the rules should have been made more clear and not distributed to different areas like they were (why is the default rule for TWF in the light weapon property???), once you understand the basic concepts, it's pretty simple.

However, I think that the because the rules are all over the place (both figuratively and literally all over different sections), the remaining cases start to get weird. It's seem clear that the intent of the rules is to try and regulate "too much" weapon juggling and get rid of weird "dropping your weapon" manoeuvres. But it doesn't ... quite ... do that. Some things will always be allowed (thrown property), other things are bizarrely unclear (hand crossbows, ammunition property), other things are just weirdly underdeveloped and left to interpretation (does the free object interaction include weapons, or is that disallowed because of the specific equip equip/unequip in the Attack Action?).

Then there are other weird interactions they might not have thought of. For example, there are weapon attacks that don't come during the Attack Action- they occur during the Bonus Action ... or ... the Magic Action. But the Magic Action is cast a spell.** So if you're a spellcaster using a Magic Action to attack a critter with your weapon ... um ... what? How does that interact with the rules that are specifically in Attack Action for equipping or unequipping? Maybe just don't think too hard about it.

In summary- I would argue that the rules neither prevent abuse particularly well (if that was a concern) nor are written well for edge cases. They are "good enough" most of the time, but those edge cases really are rough. IMO, YMMV, etc.



*My statistics are guaranteed to be mostly truthy, but it you prefer, substitute "the vast majority" for "95%".
**That's why an ability, like the EK's War Magic, that moves a cantrip into the attack action are so valuable.

 

[ECMO3]

Two handed weapon. But yes, you can do that with (a modern) bow easily.

And you can't do it with a medieval crosbow easily at all.

No, the bolt does not fall of if you don't balance it carefully.

If you try to walk around with it then it does.

Hint: (not Children) Crossbows have a metal thingy that locks the bolt in place.

It is called a bolt clip and it did not exist in most medieval crossbows. In those crossbows the bolt sat on the rail.

No, it says drawing ammunition is part of the attack. If you interpret it as "ammunition must be drawn", then yes. But it can also be read as "ammunition can be drawn".

It says drawing the ammunition IS part of the attack, not it can be part of the attack or that it is part of the attack if the weapon is not already loaded.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

And you can't do it with a medieval crosbow easily at all.



If you try to walk around with it then it does.



It is called a bolt clip and it did not exist in most medieval crossbows. In those crossbows the bolt sat on the rail.

Your failure is assuming d&d is medieval. But next time your player wants to shoot down from a castle wall try and tell them it imoossible with their crossbow.

It says drawing the ammunition IS part of the attack, not it can be part of the attack or that it is part of the attack if the weapon is not already loaded.

Whatever. I remind you on the DM guidelines regarding RAW (or what you think it is).

 

[ECMO3]

Your failure is assuming d&d is medieval. But next time your player wants to shoot down from a castle wall try and tell them it imoossible with their crossbow.

It may be impossible, but they can still do it. They can do all kinds of impossible things, doing the impossible is actually an integral part of the game. They can even shoot a hand crossbow while levitating upside down .... as long as they have one hand free to load the ammunition.

Being impossible is not what makes PCs be unable to do something, being contrary to the rules is.