D&D (2024) Monks and the Weapon Mastery Feat

ECMO3

Legend
I don't think the feat is that high a price for an extra attack plus an ability score boost I need.

But the extra attack gets no dexterity bonus to damage, so the increase in damage it gets you is minimal. You are also missing out on advantage you could get with the Vex-Nick combo reducing damage even more, and you get the same dex boost from a number of other Feats.

Also grappler is really effective on a Monk, and generally more effective than Nick since you are using unarmed strikes frequently.
 

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ECMO3

Legend
The feat for also adds to DEX and doesn't create later access to all those monk goodies in the class progression, or cost the capstone.

The feat itself is mostly trash but given the monk is one of the few classes that might make effective use of Nick but doesn't have access to it in the class table there's some sudden value.



Which standards are those? The fighter's damage modifier only applies to one attack out of many but the sneak attack option is very likely to land on one of those many attacks. OC, I can fit another feat in to add either Hex or Hunter's mark for an hour per long rest of +1d6 per attack. Eventually the build would have Cloak of Shadows (but wouldn't have to wait quite as long on a straight build) and by then the monk is guaranteed 4 focus points per combat. Cloak of Shadows cost 3 points and lasts a minute, which makes Flurry of Blows no cost.

That's 6 attacks per round with that bonus so the benefits from the SA or TWF style feat are both minor in comparison.

I can see the rogue splash more than the fighter splash, but either splash still leaves the build behind higher level abilities at almost every level.



The other masteries don't matter much because the monk only needs Nick for the extra attack. It could be 1 master or 9 masteries but Nick is the only important one. The monk could use another master in the main hand, yes, but it would have to be on a weapon the monk can use. Many of those become superfluous in the shadow monk's darkness.

The monk does need to build DEX tho, which is the other part of the feat.

I think Rogue works as well, and you make a good point that 1d6 sneak makes up some ground lost to Two Weapon Fighting style.

You say only one mastery matters, but I think you are overlooking the effectiveness Vex gives.

In terms of damage Vex is going to up your damage with Nick quite a bit. On the multiclass Monk I am playing now I am using Hand Axe for this, but with a Rogue you would probably want Shortsword becuase it is Finesse (more chances for sneak). Also with a Rogue though if you can't sneak attack, Vex will provide an opportunity for sneak attack on the next attack after it if you don't otherwise qualify for it.

Hex is nice to have, but it is situational on a Monk because your bonus action is so cluttered already.
 

I have a Monk in my game who dipped into Fighter1 just so they could have the 3 weapon masteries... Now they don't have to be Open Hand to Topple people, can support their team by Sapping with a magical mace, etc

Light/Finesse weapon masteries are really limited (basically Nick/Vex). Monk + 1 level dip is basically the only way you have of being a Dex warrior who gets to interact with the weapon mastery system as intended - juggling between every attack.
 

mellored

Legend
Monk + 1 level dip is basically the only way you have of being a Dex warrior who gets to interact with the weapon mastery system as intended - juggling between every attack.
Or fighter with a 1 level dip of monk.

Since monk is limited to 2 mastery attacks, and Fighter 9 opens up a more options.
 

Or fighter with a 1 level dip of monk.
Fair... It just feels off, because you'd still have to be naked+unshielded for the martial arts to work, which means you'd want to be boosting Dex+Wis both to have any semblance of AC, and Fighter isn't getting anything else out of the Wis.

That said, it's not like starting with Wis 16 would be a terrible thing.
 

ECMO3

Legend
Fair... It just feels off, because you'd still have to be naked+unshielded for the martial arts to work, which means you'd want to be boosting Dex+Wis both to have any semblance of AC, and Fighter isn't getting anything else out of the Wis.

That said, it's not like starting with Wis 16 would be a terrible thing.

If you are playing into high level with a fighter you are going to be taking resilient Wisdom anyway, because if you don't you are going to be spending a lot of rounds unable to contribute effectively or worse fighting for the other side.

A Monk gets the proficiency for free, eliminating this need.
 


mellored

Legend
Fair... It just feels off, because you'd still have to be naked+unshielded for the martial arts to work, which means you'd want to be boosting Dex+Wis both to have any semblance of AC, and Fighter isn't getting anything else out of the Wis.

That said, it's not like starting with Wis 16 would be a terrible thing.
17 Dex, 16 Wis
Grappler, Slasher, Defensive Duelist, Inspiring leader, Chef, and Resilient (Wis)... some other +1 Wis
= a sticky 20 AC with 26 AC against melee and a bunch of extra THP and HP and good saves.
 

Ashrym

Legend
Pick a quarterstaff with Topple for instance, getting advantage on flurry of blows will probably do more damage than Nick.

These conditions can be met in other ways.

Prone is already an option in the Open Hand monk and advantage is available through Darkness in the Shadow monk.

These other Weapon Mastery options can be available through the feat for other monks who don't want to multi-class and gives that feat some value to the monk class, but we don't need multiple forms of advantage.

Sap synergies well with Deflect Attacks, as getting hit once per turn will be far less than half the damage of getting hit twice.

My build concept uses Darkness. Opponents in that Darkness already attack the monk with disadvantage.

Push with the great club if your allies have zones up.

Definitely an option and alternative use for the feat but again built into Open Hand monks already plus it's situational.

The extra attack isn't situational. You've easily convinced me it's not overpowered, though. ;-)

Slow makes it even easier to kite people with javelin.

That looks like an overkill approach given the monk's inherent movement bonuses. If I am already giving up the bonus action attack from the unarmed strike for ranged kiting I can dash as a bonus action already with Step of the Wind.

Nick is only a little extra damage. Maybe if you got some bonus, like dip for hunters mark and a magic dagger.

It's a bonus that starts at d6 and ends at d12, and getting back to Darkness can typically be easily done with advantage already.

Nick has the same advantage here with monk's that it does with rogues in that it allows for that attack and keeps the bonus action available for other options that a monk can frequently use.

The advantage of using the feat is building towards an ability score the monk uses and not delaying access to higher level abilities.

That's not over powered but it does have it's uses.

Vex is probably the worst, since less than half your attacks are with the weapon.

Probably. But that gets back to using Darkness anyway.

The only issue with Darkness on a Shadow monk is the possibility of negatively affecting allies.

Your post was good food for thought on alternative choices for the use of Weapon Mastery.
 

ECMO3

Legend
They get Str + Dex save proficiencies. Wis 16 Monk1 is not inherently any better than a Wis 16 Fighter.

Monk gets proficency in all saves at level 14, which is about about where a fighter is going to need to start thinking about Resilient-Wisdom to not be frightened, charmed or incapacitated every fight.

If you are not playing to high level, it is not really needed.
 

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