D&D 5E (2024) How do you rule using a Hand Crossbow with a nick weapon

[Snarf Zagyg]

Slings and holsters exist.

Shoot
Drop (no action)
Shoot
Reload
Draw

Just a reminder that under the 5e24 rules, dropping a weapon is considered unequipping it.

Attack [Action]

When you take the Attack action, you can make one attack roll with a weapon or an unarmed strike

Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.

You get one equip OR one unequip as part of the attack action. Since your attack action includes draw, you don't get a "no action" drop.

 

[Plaguescarred]

You get one equip OR one unequip as part of the attack action. Since your attack action includes draw, you don't get a "no action" drop.

I read it differently; you can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. So;

Attack Action #1 attack: you can either equip or unequip one weapon
Attack Action #2 attack: you can either equip or unequip one weapon

If equip/unequip was intended to be limited to 1/action instead of 1/attack "when you make an attack" would have been an unecessary addition;

you can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I read it differently; you can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. So;

Attack Action #1 attack: you can either equip or unequip one weapon
Attack Action #2 attack: you can either equip or unequip one weapon

If equip/unequip was intended to be limited to 1/action instead of 1/attack "when you make an attack" would have been an unecessary addition;

you can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action

Dual Wielder Feat

Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow one.


So let me make sure I understand your reading of the text. You read it that dual wielder feat is superfluous (as well as the interaction with the thrown property), since you can already execute equip/unequip multiple times per attack action, right?

Or, put another way, dual wielder gives you the ability to equip/unequip twice per attack per attack action, in this scenario (which is to say, any default dual wielder scenario) you get four free equip/unequips.


I mean, sure. I will disagree. Not just because it makes a major part of the dual wielder feat superfluous, but also because it renders the additional specifying text in Attack [Action] regarding movement unnecessary (which specifies what happens with extra attacks).

 

[Plaguescarred]

So let me make sure I understand your reading of the text. You read it that dual wielder feat is superfluous (as well as the interaction with the thrown property), since you can already execute equip/unequip multiple times per attack action, right?

Or, put another way, dual wielder gives you the ability to equip/unequip twice per attack per attack action, in this scenario (which is to say, any default dual wielder scenario) you get four free equip/unequips.

Quick Draw is not superflous, it allows you to equip two weapons before attacking with the Attack Action and the Bonus Action's extra attack of Dual Wielder feat or unequip two wielded weapons after an attack instead of only 1 for exemple. It also let you to equip or unequip 2 weapons where you'd only do 1 with the Free Item Interaction.

 

[Deset Gled]

Dual Wielder Feat

Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow one.


So let me make sure I understand your reading of the text. You read it that dual wielder feat is superfluous (as well as the interaction with the thrown property), since you can already execute equip/unequip multiple times per attack action, right?

I recently got into a discussion on this topic in another thread. One key detail here is, for better or worse, terminology/jargon:

Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action.

Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.

Critically, equipping and unequipping is not the same as drawing or stowing. Without Quick Draw you can drop two weapons to the floor, with Quick Draw you can put them both back in a sheath/holster. Without Quick Draw you may only use your one free Interact to draw a single weapon, but you can equip a weapon with each attack. IMNSHO, this "equip" means shifting weapons between hands, switching between using a staff as a walking stick or quarterstaff, etc. It would not include picking up a weapon from the ground or pulling it from a bag like Quick Draw would allow. YMMV. I have not been following this thread closely enough to know how this would affect the Nick ability.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I recently got into a discussion on this topic in another thread. One key detail here is, for better or worse, terminology/jargon:

Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action.

Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.

Critically, equipping and unequipping is not the same as drawing or stowing. Without Quick Draw you can drop two weapons to the floor, with Quick Draw you can put them both back in a sheath/holster. Without Quick Draw you may only use your one free Interact to draw a single weapon, but you can equip a weapon with each attack. IMNSHO, this "equip" means shifting weapons between hands, switching between using a staff as a walking stick or quarterstaff, etc. It would not include picking up a weapon from the ground or pulling it from a bag like Quick Draw would allow. YMMV. I have not been following this thread closely enough to know how this would affect the Nick ability.

I think that quick draw has to be read with equipping and unequipping ("when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one").

With all of that said, I will point out what I am pretty sure I have referred to before-

1. I enjoy interpreting rules, although it's kind of a bus driver's holiday for me. I try and interpret rules so that they make sense together and holistically using the terms, but not in order to either create advantages or loopholes, nor to deprive players, but just to make sense of them.

2. I am not the DM for anyone here, and I will not come to your table and slap the dice out of your hands if you play differently. These are all how I view the rules.

3. I have never found "weapon juggling" to be a problem at any table I have been at, probably because the players at my table (and when I play, myself) aren't ... into that. In other words, people tend to think of concepts and build to them, as opposed to looking at rules and building to the rules. As I stated repeatedly, if someone wanted to play a concept that was against the RAW, I'd work with them (the character that dual wields hand crossbows) so that their concept just works as opposed to trying to do some sort of "hold, drop, etc." that requires parsing multiple rules and squinting your eyes just right in a way that isn't ... cool. But that's for tables to decide. What's cool.

In short, I find a lot of these rules conversations to be results-driven.

PS- equip and unequip are defined terms that happen to include drawing and stowing.
Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.

 

[Deset Gled]

PS- equip and unequip are defined terms that happen to include drawing and stowing.
Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.

Can you point me to where that's from?

I'm not denying that you're correct here. But it seems like this is one of the changes to drawing/equipping/interaction between the 2014 and 2024 version. My group is still playing 2014 right now. I'm not finding this text in the 2024 SRD, and I don't recall running across it in the books.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Can you point me to where that's from?

I'm not denying that you're correct here. But it seems like this is one of the changes to drawing/equipping/interaction between the 2014 and 2024 version. My group is still playing 2014 right now. I'm not finding this text in the 2024 SRD, and I don't recall running across it in the books.

Rules glossary. You can access a copy on D&D Beyond- it's under Attack [Action].

And no worries about the differences; there are a lot of weird and subtle differences between 14 and 24. Don't get me started on grappling!

 

[Deset Gled]

Rules glossary. You can access a copy on D&D Beyond- it's under Attack [Action].

Thanks. Also, grr. First using "Utilize" as an action name, and now hiding critical rules in the glossary.

I realize I'm late to the 2014 vs 2024 debate but I'm really starting to think the only good thing to come out of 5e2024 was the revised monk.

Also, at a first glance this does make Quick Draw completely superfluous.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Thanks. Also, grr. First using "Utilize" as an action name, and now hiding critical rules in the glossary.

I realize I'm late to the 2014 vs 2024 debate but I'm really starting to think the only good thing to come out of 5e2024 was the revised monk.

Also, at a first glance this does make Quick Draw completely superfluous.

As an unabashed lover of the Monk class, that is enough for me!

Having done a pretty deep dive into 5e24, I actually think that it does a lot of good things. But .... one of the biggest problems is that it is both so similar to, and yet, so subtly different from, 5e14. Which means that if you've had a decade of using words and rules in one way you will find that they just work really well ... except when they don't, and then they don't work at all because it's changed.

I keep using grapple as a go-to example, because it uses the same word, and it appears in many of the same places, but it is completely different now- which a lot of people just ... don't realize. The TWF are a little easier because most people understand that they have changed, but now the rules are actually spread out over various areas- and, confusingly, are concentrated in weapon properties.

The biggest change is that (IMO) 5e14 used key words, but was also more "natural language." 5e24 tried to tighten it up by being a lot more keyword focused. Probably because (again, IMO) they were looking to support VTT/computer play more heavily.