Why don't more people play high level campaigns? 13th+

[Emirikol]

It seems like most people don't play a lot of high level games (i.e. 13th+). What are your takes and experiences?

jh

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Plots are harder to pull off. The PC's abilty to gather information skyrockets, and the NPC's ability to gather information (without using cheesy Scry) decreases.

Combat slows down; all those options aren't that great when combat takes four times as long.

Some classes, like the fighter, are a lot less fun to play at high levels.

Almost every group has someone who doesn't know the rules, which is fatal in a high level campaign.

Combat changes so much it's hard for many GMs to challenge the PCs (especially if they're all rules-competent). Combat can often get "swingy" as well, with lots of over-the-top PC-killing and lots of wimpy encounters with nothing in between

Making matters worse, the ridiculous 4 encounters per day system breaks down even further at high levels. Spellcasters aren't going to run out if they're doing something other than direct damage, and in some campaigns the PCs can just take a nap anytime they want.

High level NPCs take longer to design, and are (comparatively) weaker, especially if they're not a spellcaster.

 

[Crothian]

Most of my campaigns go higher then that, but from watching other DMs who don't I just think they are not prepared or ready for it. It is easier to stop a campaign before high levels then it is to DM a campaign of high levels. People usually take the easy way out.

 

[Sammael]

Because it takes 3+ hours to fully stat every NPC. Even if I only make full stats for one out of every 10 NPCs encountered, it's still a _lot_ of time.

My 5+ year-long campaign is nearing its end, and it'll be a relief from a DMing point of view. I've had to resort to moderate railroading to keep the game going (and to draw the story to its semi-logical conclusion), and I hate that. It's been a great experience, but not one I'd care to repeat. Taking 12 hours to prepare for every 4-hour session is starting to feel like a chore.

 

[reveal]

Combat slows down; all those options aren't that great when combat takes four times as long.

Combat changes so much it's hard for many GMs to challenge the PCs (especially if they're all rules-competent).

I ran an Eberron campaign from 1st to 20th and these were my two biggest problems when the PCs reached 15th level and beyond. One combat could last the entire session. One spellcaster could take 10 minutes to perform his actions not because he necessarily didn't know the rules but because he had so many options it was hard to decide what to do.

With that said, I'm running the Savage Tide Adventure Path right now, which goes from 1st to 20th, because it's fun and because my players had a great time in the Eberron campaign.

 

[Steel_Wind]

The power level in such campaigns goes from Achilles level epic hero to out and out 4 color Superhero stuff.

That isn't the literary tradition most fantasy gamers enjoy. Save or die spells become far too common and the reason to keep people engaged in things starts to waiver.

As it turn out, my campaign (Age of Worms) is about to move on to 12th level quite soon and the power level just continues to spike upwards - even all the way to epic 21st by campaign's end. It's neat as my players aren't used to that.

But I can tell you that after AoW is over - I expect everyone will be quite happy to go back to first level again...

 

[Emirikol]

But I can tell you that after AoW is over - I expect everyone will be quite happy to go back to first level again...

I reached that point last night. We didn't play the "party at Alhaster" which was written like a bad LG interactive and instead I all but dropped the remainder of the campaign. We played Lost Temple of Demogorgon (14th level). The high level elements of an adventure from DUNGEON were ok, but as a DM I too have pretty much soured to the whole high level thing. We'll probably go to 16th at most.

It seems like role playing negotiation is no longer necessary and combats take weeks to accomplish. It's denegrated to "buff" "fireball" 4-attacks-per-round "haste" more-attacks-per-round..save or die.

As a DM, it becomes a nightmare of A-Z monsters from whatever teh latests monster manual rather than fighting high level opponents (who wants to do stat blocks?...nobody? that's what I thought

Ya, ok...maybe the higher level stuff is more fun online where you have a computer to do all the mind-numbing math

In any case, I'm going to poll the players. Maybe they're having fun with the high level power as opposed to "having fun at whatever level."

jh

 

[Ry]

I've never had a campaign go past 12th; the GM (whether its me or someone else) always gets bogged down and discouraged by prep at that level.

 

[Presto2112]

As a DM, it becomes a nightmare of A-Z monsters from whatever teh latests monster manual rather than fighting high level opponents (who wants to do stat blocks?...nobody? that's what I thought

Hmmm... maybe I'm alone in liking doing statblocks. Sure it takes a while, but heck, I liked making dozens of backup PCs when I was a player, too.

 

[Crothian]

The only full high level stat block I've done in the past 5 years has been a Lich. And I only did that because since he keeps coming back I get a lot of use out of him. I feel doing a full stat block for something just dies and never gets used again is kind of pointless. I also think high level dungeon crawls are not all that fun so I run different types of adventures once we get around 10th level.