Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why don't more people play high level campaigns? 13th+
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Lord Zardoz" data-source="post: 3405434" data-attributes="member: 704"><p><strong>My own guesses</strong></p><p></p><p>There are a few reasons that come to mind.</p><p></p><p>- Dms like to start out at low levels, if for no other reason then to grow the game with the players. But by the time they hit level 13, the campaign often goes toast due to players flaking out.</p><p>- Boredom. People get the urge to try some other game or campaign.</p><p>- Frustrating due to tracking so many different modifiers and magical effects. (#1)</p><p>- Work load. It is easier for a Dm to put together a low level adventure. As power levels escalate, the work load gets tougher. (#2)</p><p></p><p></p><p>#1: The one big problem with the current game is that because everything is tied in together, it is easy to create a spell that is +X to some stat or roll. Many effects stack. Some effects do not apply in all cases. This is where the number crunch frustration sets it. Consider this.</p><p></p><p>Lvl 1 Fighter: Attack roll = Bab + Str + Wpn Focus.</p><p>Lvl 4 Fighter: Attack roll = Bab + Str + Str Buff + Bless spell + Wpn Focus - Power attack.</p><p>Lvl 10 Fighter: Attack roll = Bab + Str + Wpn Bonus + Wpn Focus + Str Buff + Bless - Power Attack - Iterative Attack - Enervation spell + Potion of Heroism;</p><p></p><p>At higher levels, you get too many modifiers affecting the same thing. It gets worse when some bonuses do not apply but others do not. This is why so many Dm's complain about running high level games. It is very easy to lose track of so many persistent effects. The only way around this problem is to cut back on items and spells that are flat bonuses to spells.</p><p></p><p>#2: The work load effect happens because many Dm's prefer to home brew their campaigns. Dm's who like their story lines will throw alot of custom NPC's at the party. Generating high level NPCs takes time. You have to account for things like their magical gear, their Feats, their skill points, which stats they bumped at levels 4, 8, 12, etc. If you multi-class, you have to apply the skill points correctly (a Fighter / Wizard cannot put fighter skills into Spell craft except as a cross class skill). If you increase your Int bonus, you have to decide how that affects skill aquisition. And you have to list all the class abilities for your NPC's, and finally any templates you wish to apply.</p><p></p><p>There are two ways around this problem. One is to use monsters exclusively for combat, which allows you to just use a statblock. Another is to stick to published modules. Neither of which really allows for much in the way of customization of the storyline.</p><p></p><p>I myself have never Dm'ed for players higher then 6th level, but that is usually due to <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> luck with respect to being able to maintain a campaign. I do hope to hit level 13 and beyond. But I intend to do so using published modules. I just do not have the time to create a balanced campaign otherwise.</p><p></p><p>END COMMUNICATION</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lord Zardoz, post: 3405434, member: 704"] [b]My own guesses[/b] There are a few reasons that come to mind. - Dms like to start out at low levels, if for no other reason then to grow the game with the players. But by the time they hit level 13, the campaign often goes toast due to players flaking out. - Boredom. People get the urge to try some other game or campaign. - Frustrating due to tracking so many different modifiers and magical effects. (#1) - Work load. It is easier for a Dm to put together a low level adventure. As power levels escalate, the work load gets tougher. (#2) #1: The one big problem with the current game is that because everything is tied in together, it is easy to create a spell that is +X to some stat or roll. Many effects stack. Some effects do not apply in all cases. This is where the number crunch frustration sets it. Consider this. Lvl 1 Fighter: Attack roll = Bab + Str + Wpn Focus. Lvl 4 Fighter: Attack roll = Bab + Str + Str Buff + Bless spell + Wpn Focus - Power attack. Lvl 10 Fighter: Attack roll = Bab + Str + Wpn Bonus + Wpn Focus + Str Buff + Bless - Power Attack - Iterative Attack - Enervation spell + Potion of Heroism; At higher levels, you get too many modifiers affecting the same thing. It gets worse when some bonuses do not apply but others do not. This is why so many Dm's complain about running high level games. It is very easy to lose track of so many persistent effects. The only way around this problem is to cut back on items and spells that are flat bonuses to spells. #2: The work load effect happens because many Dm's prefer to home brew their campaigns. Dm's who like their story lines will throw alot of custom NPC's at the party. Generating high level NPCs takes time. You have to account for things like their magical gear, their Feats, their skill points, which stats they bumped at levels 4, 8, 12, etc. If you multi-class, you have to apply the skill points correctly (a Fighter / Wizard cannot put fighter skills into Spell craft except as a cross class skill). If you increase your Int bonus, you have to decide how that affects skill aquisition. And you have to list all the class abilities for your NPC's, and finally any templates you wish to apply. There are two ways around this problem. One is to use monsters exclusively for combat, which allows you to just use a statblock. Another is to stick to published modules. Neither of which really allows for much in the way of customization of the storyline. I myself have never Dm'ed for players higher then 6th level, but that is usually due to :):):):):):) luck with respect to being able to maintain a campaign. I do hope to hit level 13 and beyond. But I intend to do so using published modules. I just do not have the time to create a balanced campaign otherwise. END COMMUNICATION [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why don't more people play high level campaigns? 13th+
Top