D&D General Why Exploration Is the Worst Pillar

Sure, it seems weird, until you realize that there isn't really anything other than getting lost that overland travel can challenge you with. Especially given magic and time, or time and more time. And extra especially once you hit around 7th to 9th level, then there really isn't anything that can be more than an annoyance for the party.
Have you considered that you, like many people, may not have the skills or experience to prepare and present engaging exploration challenges for overland travel using the rules available in D&D 5e? These can be developed if you put effort into it.
 

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Let me put it another way. If you don’t use diseases because your party has a cleric, you’re removing the cleric’s chance to use their abilities.

Disease can be portrayed by symptoms that build into mechanical effects. The cleric then prays for restoration. You’re consuming resources and players feels like they avoided something unpleasant through the intervention from another player. The player still gets the creeping unease that the fever they’re feeling could be something worse.

Could be something worse... See, this makes me scratch my head, because a player pretty much always knows they have gotten a disease, unless the DM takes a lot of steps to avoid it. First of all, there has to be a vector, usually it is a monster attack. Then you roll for Con. Now, I suppose the DM could secretly roll for the player and not tell them the result, but that isn't how DnD 5e is generally supposed to be ran. Then you get the actual symptoms. "You have a fever" usually isn't a symptom. Things like the poison condition or being unable to regain hit points are symptoms... and they become very obvious very quickly.

Now, if you have the attack, and you secretly roll and the player succeeds, and you describe the player as being feverish... then you are really just trying to gaslight the players into wasting a resource when they already succeeded.

And if they have the disease... then again, it doesn't last more than a day or two. Sure, it might be dangerous but... only for combat. And sure, the cleric may really want to cast Lesser Restoration to cure a disease, but they also might not be that excited for that ability and don't really care. In which case, why am I doing it?

The biggest issue for exploration is that by having one or two encounters per day combat, exploration or otherwise you’re breaking the expectations for a typical adventuring day. Allowing all resources to be thrown at those few incidents. Filling a day with dozens of things feels either tedious and means every journey takes a long time.

Exactly. And the only two solutions people seem to want to throw at most problems is add more combat and make it a ticking clock. But that doesn't solve some of the more fundamental issues.


My preferred solution is the way AIME dealt with it. You can’t get the benefit of a long rest sleeping out on the road, it just isn’t safe or restful enough. You need a place of safety to regain spells and class abilties etc. An inn, an abandoned shrine to a good god, or a cabin in the woods. Finding these locations can make a Rangers abilities shine too.

This can work, but you have to ask, why isn't Leomund's Tiny Hut safe enough?
 

It sounds like my idea of hell. I suspect some serious editing would be needed to turn that slogfest into a game I would enjoy. I’ve had whole campaigns last less than 16 three hour sessions.

I wonder how many of your experiences are influenced by some very odd DM choices. Remember there is no in game solution for out of game problems.

And many in-game problems are caused by in-game pressures and expectations on how the game "should be run". Like I said, guy was a good DM, the journey wasn't even that bad, but we quickly were getting tired of the fact that we had leveled three or four times, gotten thousands of gold... and never made it off the road.

We then got to town and found out the DM was using that atrocious "sane magical pricing" guide, so we couldn't afford anything better than what we had anyways. So, we left the city fairly quickly to go back to adventuring.
 

And many in-game problems are caused by in-game pressures and expectations on how the game "should be run". Like I said, guy was a good DM, the journey wasn't even that bad, but we quickly were getting tired of the fact that we had leveled three or four times, gotten thousands of gold... and never made it off the road.

We then got to town and found out the DM was using that atrocious "sane magical pricing" guide, so we couldn't afford anything better than what we had anyways. So, we left the city fairly quickly to go back to adventuring.
The way you write makes me think you’ll never be happy. A lot of players would kill for a DM that went to the trouble of setting up a magical economy, and gave them 16 sessions of fun levelling up and thousands of gold.

Give your DM the feedback and then put up with it, or find another group if you can do one better. You probably can’t. Now I realize you’re a player complaining about their DM it puts even more into perspective. Maybe set up your own group with you as DM. Then you can run the game however you want. If you can find players willing to play with you. I think you would find it an illuminating process.
 

Could be something worse... See, this makes me scratch my head, because a player pretty much always knows they have gotten a disease, unless the DM takes a lot of steps to avoid it. First of all, there has to be a vector, usually it is a monster attack. Then you roll for Con. Now, I suppose the DM could secretly roll for the player and not tell them the result, but that isn't how DnD 5e is generally supposed to be ran. Then you get the actual symptoms. "You have a fever" usually isn't a symptom. Things like the poison condition or being unable to regain hit points are symptoms... and they become very obvious very quickly.

Now, if you have the attack, and you secretly roll and the player succeeds, and you describe the player as being feverish... then you are really just trying to gaslight the players into wasting a resource when they already succeeded.

And if they have the disease... then again, it doesn't last more than a day or two. Sure, it might be dangerous but... only for combat. And sure, the cleric may really want to cast Lesser Restoration to cure a disease, but they also might not be that excited for that ability and don't really care. In which case, why am I doing it?
There’s no gas lighting. Make the con check after the symptoms appear to see it go they are bad enough to be debilitating. I start coughing and get a fever. A day later I ask the Pc to roll a con save to see if the symptoms become bad enough to have an effect. Ive never been in combat and I’ve surely caught a fair few diseases over the years so I’m not sure why you think they have to come from injuries. Ive also not met a player yet who was comfortable being debilitated by anything, let alone a disease.
 


That doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the rules, but whatever.

Why not? The Outlander finds food per day, no need to travel. They can only take the "foraging but no passive perception" while traveling.

If you knew that you couldn't pay proper attention in a forest full of deadly monsters, but that you safely get food when you stopped to camp while paying enough attention to potentially avoid deadly monsters... why wouldn't you?

Well, there are players that do enjoy "the tedium" of exploration by the rules. They're not much different from what was found in the B/X and BECMI editions. And, well, people did have fun with those. It may not be for you or your group, but it's not the universally despised thing.

Sure, some people like it. But if the exploration pillar is only something that people with very specific tastes enjoy... there might be a problem in the exploration pillar. Maybe not if you share those tastes, but if you don't.

You don't need 6 encounters every day. (And, yes, encounters can be anything—from washed out bringes to strange obelisks to mysterious tracks or sudden weather changes to whatever.) You can vary the amount of encounters (less encounters that are more challenging or more encounters that are less challenging), you you could have 1 encounter in a day that require the expenditure of most of the party's resources. Speedbumps are okay, as long as the players are enjoying themselves—in fact, you can use speedbumps to allow the party to show off how awesome they are. Or you could even have encounters that don't require the expenditure of resources—that strange obelisk with some mysterious, ancient script could be an encounter just to be mysterious or to connect the players with the setting's history or be there to telegraph something that may play into the campaign in the future.

Sure, sometimes a squash match is good for the players to feel awesome. But it is also time spent at the table on something that is usually not relevant to the larger picture.

But, the other issue is that if we are just montaging until something interesting happens... that feels like we aren't actually doing the exploration pillar at all. But if we do the exploration pillar, things grind to a halt.

But the question I have is: What do you want from wilderness exploration?

For the sweet spot in the middle. If I knew the exact rules and things to do to make it work, I don't think this would be an issue that comes up so often, and I don't necessarily expect you to have a perfect answer either.

There needs to be something in the middle. A point where players can make informed decisions, and that isn't just wasting their time. Something that takes into account the abilities of players, including high level abilities, but doesn't just cancel those abilities and make them pointless. Something that doesn't drag exploration on for dozens of sessions, but doesn't feel like you are cheating like skipping over it in minutes does.

How much real time do you want your players to spend travelling/do you think the players will have fun with?

That's the crux, isn't it? How much time of this is fun. That does depend, but I don't think it should depend on the player's patience, I think it should depend on the tools and systems they can interact with. And I think that is something getting lost a bit in the noise.

Size matters—how large an area are you wanting the players to explore/how distant is the location you want to travel to? The larger the unknown area the characters have to travel through will likely require more time spent. Though scale can affect this as well—for smaller areas, using the 1 hex = 1 mile makes sense, larger areas should probable use a larger scale like 1 hex = 6 miles (as the DMG suggests) or more (24 miles is a good one for represent 1 hex travelled per day).

Distance traveled in game shouldn't affect time IRL. Also, this is something completely outside the player's control. They make no decisions regarding any of this.

How many encounters you have planned (and how often you roll for random encounters) will affect this, too. Do you want one planned encounter per hex or do you want 1 encounter per x hexes, leaving some empty hexes to breeze through? How often do you want to roll for random encounters (if at all)? Are the encounters interesting, or just rote—do they take place in terrain that affects the encounter (is there quicksand in some spots, iced-over lake, forrest fire, etc.)? Are there weather conditions (rain, heatwave, strong winds, etc.) that affect the encounter? Having a weather generator helps with this (especially if you generate several days or weeks in advance).

Again though, while the number of encounters and the DMs plan for those encounters matters.... players get no say in this. The only thing they can choose is whether or not to engage. They can't make decisions based on this.

There is no one-size-fits-all answer to your question. You have to know (ask) your players what they think on the matter and base your answer on that.

Which, is an interesting point, when you start looking at the questions you are asking. Because you are asking "what do you as the DM plan for the players to do or encounter" and at no point do the players get a say, except whether or not to engage.

And, to reiterate a point I think I'm going to be saying a lot, a blind choice isn't a choice.

I actually had a DM who put us in a wailing blizzard in the mountains. It was an eternal storm from the Plane of Ice, never-ending and the DM wanted to challenge us. Did we turn back, did we go right, did we go left, or did we continue forward.

I asked what we knew about navigating the storm (my character was the local expert on such matters) and we were told... basically nothing. We had no idea which decision would mean which thing. We knew we had to get past the storm to reach our goal, and nothing about what the various paths would lead to.

The DM got a little upset when I told them then that our choice didn't matter, so we might as well move forward. They seemed upset, telling me that if we chose wrong we could be stuck in the blizzard forever, or reach the center of the rip in the planes and face worse consequences. And, I told them, "Look, we only know one thing. That we can turn back and head back to the ship, abandoning our mission, and that is the one thing we won't do. Since every other path is identical, it doesn't matter which path we take. So, we might as well go forward. It's all luck."

Soon after that the DM had us meet Yetis who guided us the rest of the way to our destination. But, I remember that feeling from that scenario. It was utterly pointless. Our decision didn't matter, because it was basically a coin flip. We had no tools to figure out anything, and the DM basically told us we couldn't figure out anything, and since we literally couldn't turn back and abandon out mission, we realistically had no choices to make.

And, it isn't the only time that that has happened. I've run into this a lot. Where we are given a choice, but zero information, and so the choice is pointless.
 

Well, I use gritty realism so the Remove Disease isn't really as free as you might think.
And what you mean how I would "implement" that? I just follow the rules in the rulebooks...

So, you rarely ever use exhaustion then. Because in the very few places it can show up, it is usually a DC 10 or lower check, which even untrained people can pass. That's actually true of most diseases too. I can't think of too many that a level 9 party wouldn't be able to pass with general ease.

And yes, if you change over to having the players go 7 days between restoring their abilities, then it is a lot harder to do anything. But the game should work with the base rules, not only the optional ones.
 

The question is, what do people want from "exploration" if it's "not that kind of exploration"? And why would be using mechanics created for a type of exploration that isn't desired?

This whole discussion is about a square peg and a round hole.

What rules exist for other types of exploration?
 

Why? It's 10 minutes. You never take a short rest? The party takes a short rest, the wizard shock doesn't and you now have identified all 6 items without any risk to yourself.
Did you not read what I wrote? They wait until they take rests; they don't just drop what they're doing to identify stuff.

Also, if you spend your short rest identifying stuff, you don't get the benefits of the short rest. It's a trade-off.

You really need to stop quoting rules. Spell components are only used if the spell states that it's used. So, why am I buying pearls in the middle of nowhere again?
You really need to try to understand what people are writing before you make snap judgements. You could have had your pearls lost or stolen; you could have only just gotten the spell.

Yup, when the DM includes elements that deliberately nerf character abilities for the sole purpose of presevering their precious encounter, then, yup, it's railroading. These "floods" and "forest fires" only seem to be included when the party has a ranger. And, if we're only including these elements once in a while, all that means is that the ranger is bypassing the challenge most of the time and, once in a while, when the DM decides to force it, the ranger isn't.
So: if the DM includes exploration challenges so that the ranger can actually use their class skills, it's only done to railroad. It couldn't possibly be because parties that don't have rangers or other outdoorsy types wouldn't stand a chance against a flood or forest fire and so it wouldn't be fair to use those hazards against that sort of party, right? It couldn't be because the ranger's PC asked for more exploration challenges?

I guess if you have a wizard in the party and the DM decides to include a wizard's duel in an adventure, it must be railroading because they wouldn't have included such a duel if there weren't any wizards in the party.

I wasn't aware that having a DM create adventures that allow individuals to show off their skills was a bad thing.
 

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