D&D General "Why Greyhawk?" in 2023 - grodog's thoughts

[grodog]

"Why Greyhawk?" and why I think that Greyhawk is still as relevant in 2023 as it was in 1973: Why Greyhawk in 2023? - grodog's Thoughts

Allan.

 

[Clint_L]

Your article is an excellent read - I recommend! I am a huge fan of this setting, and happily ran all my first campaigns there. The 1982 boxed set was one of my treasured possessions; I waited desperately for it to be released after it was teased for ages in Dragon and I remember rushing home with it and just pouring over the map, enraptured.

I dearly hope that it gets a proper 50th anniversary re-release in 2024 that keeps it as a sandbox environment with lots of room for DMs and players to create their own stories. Like, how do you not make Greyhawk a celebrated release in 2024? And for the specific adventure to release alongside it: Blackmoore, the mega-dungeon.

In 5e, I think the closest thing we have is Matt Mercer's Exandria, which is very obviously inspired by Greyhawk in the sense of being a high fantasy setting that is very much presented as an open sandbox. I enjoy it, but I would love to get a new tome for the original.

 

[Redwizard007]

I find the points you make about leaving details unfinished so that DMs can flesh them out as desired, a bit at odds with the response to recent releases from WOTC. Particularly since much of the grumbling seems to come from posters who allegedly enjoyed Greyhawk. I wonder what has changed.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

A question about your first point (sandboxability)

In what way do you feel Greyhawk is better at facilitating sandbox play than another setting.

As an example, I feel like your exercise at crafting a starting seaside town from a map blank space could have been also done in the Forgotten Realms along the Moonsea as an example.

 

[Clint_L]

A question about your first point (sandboxability)

In what way do you feel Greyhawk is better at facilitating sandbox play than another setting.

As an example, I feel like your exercise at crafting a starting seaside town from a map blank space could have been also done in the Forgotten Realms along the Moonsea as an example.

I think Forgotten realms could work for this as well. It is another setting that I love, even if it has been released piecemeal in 5e. There is something about Greyhawk as the OG, though, as it grew out of the Gygax group's first campaign, then intentionally added on so as to allow for those blank spaces expressly for DMs to play in.

I think the intent of OP's article is to celebrate Greyhawk, especially with the 50th anniversary almost on us. For many of us old-timers, there is a magic to Greyhawk and Blackmoore that no other D&D setting can quite match, even though there are many other excellent settings.

Edit: And they do a re-release, they should bring Luke Gygax in to consult. He learned the game playing in the original.

 

[Argyle King]

A question about your first point (sandboxability)

In what way do you feel Greyhawk is better at facilitating sandbox play than another setting.

As an example, I feel like your exercise at crafting a starting seaside town from a map blank space could have been also done in the Forgotten Realms along the Moonsea as an example.

I can't speak for anyone else.

My own perspective is that Greyhawk hits a good sweet spot between giving information and leaving things blank.

There's enough information to give the feel of a living setting with established lore. At the same time, the map has blank spots and areas for growth.

How those two things work in concert is that the lore is enough (and flexible enough) to allow a lot of things to be logically extrapolated to fit into the blank spots in a variety of ways; the blank spots are positioned where they are open-ended but near enough to the solid pieces that a group isn't left completely without inspiration.

 

[Shiroiken]

I started in Greyhawk, and I love it. I've played in dozens of other settings, and I feel that the minimalist level of detail provided by the original folio and boxed sets are perfect. They provide enough information to inspire the DM to fill out a specific area for a campaign, while not putting them in a straitjacket with too much detail. I'm sad that the original concept of Greyhawk wasn't followed through with, where the Flanaess was just the first section of the world to be revealed.

A question about your first point (sandboxability)

In what way do you feel Greyhawk is better at facilitating sandbox play than another setting.

As an example, I feel like your exercise at crafting a starting seaside town from a map blank space could have been also done in the Forgotten Realms along the Moonsea as an example.

Part of the issue is the fact that the Realms timeline keeps getting pushed forward, often with "Realms Shattering Events." The setting appears to be designed for big story events, in the vein of modern APs, rather than simple sandbox adventuring. While you can use FR that way, it's possible that some event is going to happen in the official timeline to ruin the area your game is in.

 

[Aldarc]

I can't speak for anyone else.

My own perspective is that Greyhawk hits a good sweet spot between giving information and leaving things blank.

There's enough information to give the feel of a living setting with established lore. At the same time, the map has blank spots and areas for growth.

How those two things work in concert is that the lore is enough (and flexible enough) to allow a lot of things to be logically extrapolated to fit into the blank spots in a variety of ways; the blank spots are positioned where they are open-ended but near enough to the solid pieces that a group isn't left completely without inspiration.

This is precisely the reason why I love running many, if not most, of my games in the Nentir Vale, which is also open-ended and contemporary enough to easily permit newer character options (e.g., ancestries, classes, etc.). It's easy to plug new things into the setting because of its aforementioned blanks since a lot of the themes of its mythos (e.g., Dawn War, World Axis, etc.) do the heavy lifting for hooks.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

We shouldn't forget the potential of the DMGuild if this is unlocked.

But today Greyhawk should be almost rebooted to allow space for all the new ideas from the last editions, PC species and classes, for example.

 

[Argyle King]

This is precisely the reason why I love running many, if not most, of my games in the Nentir Vale, which is also open-ended and contemporary enough to easily permit newer character options (e.g., ancestries, classes, etc.). It's easy to plug new things into the setting because of its aforementioned blanks since a lot of the themes of its mythos (e.g., Dawn War, World Axis, etc.) do the heavy lifting for hooks.

I can agree with that. I liked the early lore of 4E's setting.