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why I play evil characters

Re: people having a hard time separating

telepox said:
funny how the short replies here seem to hold the most wisdom to me. everyone should keep their "persons" separate from their characters.

I do and that is why they are so valuable to me. They contrast me so much and they provide me with so much wisdom that I truly desire to play them.
 

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In terms of alignment, my favourites are N, CN and CG crudely put. However, I do play other types of characters
too, however excluding LG paladins and anything elvish. :)

I actually use alignments pretty loosely, more guidelines, though in fantasy worlds IMO there must be some absolutes for
good/evil/law/chaos, which are not only culturally relative. However, this need not be some limited and easily abusable alignmentperspective out of player's book.

Expect consequences for truly antisocial behaviour, and this can be culturally relative. There are grey areas, but there are some deeds and mindsets that are not amongh those grey areas. I call them 'passions'. Certain 'passions' and deeds done under certain ones or 'owned by certain passion by default' are inherently tainted by more 'supernatural' alignment resonance. So, in terms of alignment, somebody could be NE, but still effectually neutral. But that's my system, loose one, to keep some meaning of fantasy good/evil in game. These effects depend on the game world, they are not universal in my every fantasy game.

Evil doesn't fascinate me at all. I prefer not to play evil characters, since I do that 'too well', and am too succesful, and I've many times been assigned by dm to play 'traitor'. It usually ends to great destruction in some twisted and nightmarish way, other players remember for years to come. I truly hate to 'win' in rpg or larp that way. Yep, one of those was larp, where my character sheet stated: "You are the bad guy. Your purpose in this game is to make other characters' life as misarable as possible". You know the actors, who complain they are stuck with villain roles, well, it was so for me for years. I guess, this was becuse I waa trustworhy, I always wanted to other players to have fun, and not end game prematuraly with some needless backstabbing. I didn't actually complain, but I did start to miss playing hero for once, instead of these grey-anti-heroes or villains.

I'd still like to do that, but not in world/by dm:s who punish for being good/innocent and make it Sooo hard. It really should not be universal rule, since if it were, many fantasy books, movies or mythic stories would have very different endings indeed.
Also, there is certain type of evil I never again play, mostly because it never was fun in the first place.

Cartoony evil has it's places too, sometimes it just is more dramatic in a fun way, that keeps game going into right direction.

I've run my share of 'evil' games too. In my games, evil characters were still humans, and true darkest evil wasn't anything fun, and didn't even look that way, if one got good clear look at it. That's one way to potray evil. It's 'true evil is out there to make you a victim'.

There is another way to potray evil, I call it seductive evil. It's 'true evil is out there to make you powerful'.
Oh, and how I've suffered of this dm-type. I guess, that's why I want to use that less appealing side of evil myself.

I don't really like it, that sometimes evil becomes so fun, it is not evil anymore. It just 'dark is cool' and 'good is stupid' and
'evil's have better orgies than good ones'. I've known too many people in real life, who believe 'evil' to be like that.
Unsuccesful, weak and bitter people most of them. As if social competition wouldn't be as hurting and hard among antisocial
abusers in the end.

Alignment issues are more complicated, if other psychological issues are taken into account. You can be chaotic evil, and still totally obsessed over person, item or goal. True obsession, is not lawful trait, it's form of insanity. And there is not reason why chaotic person would always act 'chaotic', that woudn't be very chaotic, now would it, it? :D

I allow 'evil' or even evil characters, but that's always a choice to make, and it depends a lot on campaing I am going to run, and what kind of character that player has in mind.

Exception: I'd accept NE assassin pleyed by immature 'I kill people' player any day compared to that supposingly LG paladin,
who's player totally tries to ruin game for everybody else. :D
 

First off, before I vouch for my friend here I'd like to say that closed-minded DM's IMO kill the game, their 1-road mindset of "Good vs. Evil is how i run "my" game, and if you dont like it, tough", I personally think these ppl should be smacked up a few times. Now with that being said....

Yes, i can partialy vouch for D'jviek, his characters (when evil) are not steriotypical, with the exception for some of our earlier characters(no, im not talking about D'jviek, namely A.U. Biguy). He most often does evil to further is own goals or Cyric(or another deity of his choice), D'jviek Kashar for example is one of the most devout worshipers of Cyric that I've seen, he will do anything he sees fit if it furthers Cyric's cause(he would even betray me if a dream told him to:) ) but I'm realitivly the same way.

I find it quite hard to correctly play chaotic evil, so i tend to stick to Lawful Evil.

funny how the short replies here seem to hold the most wisdom to me. everyone should keep their "persons" separate from their characters.

I've come to accept that I am Master Kaul Ravinous, the(former) First Lord of Tilverton and loyal subject of Alusair(Regant of Cormyr). This is simply myself magnified and projected into a fantasy setting. Others are simply jealous b/c they arn't as "In-Character" as I am:)

-Master Kaul Ravinous
 
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A few statements

Two examples:

- I know a lot of players who look at me with eyes as big as dinner plates and say, "I wanna play EVIL!". I say, "Ok, bring up some reasons why he is evil and do it". Then they go ahead and start doing evil things and get wasted by the cityguard. And whine about unfair DMs.
- A player I know is a perfect example of seductive evil. He corrupts and undermines and manipulates every group he plays in. He's the type who could make a paladin become a blackguard cause he convinced him it's the GOOD thing to do. I still wait for the player who confronts him or wastes his char (since he tends to play non fighter non killing machine things with low physical stats). Hasn't happened that far.

I don't like alignments. But we have them and they got a good part in the spells and I am too lazy these days to change that part. Thanks Teflon Billy for that idea btw.

If someone wants to play an evil char and does it good: Go ahead. Be prepared to face the consequences of your actions. Good characters got enough enemies already, evil ones got more. Enjoy.
 

Nice post... maybe not as insightful as I thought it would be... there are easily many many more extra reasons to play evil. Evil campaigns by themselves can be very interesting for change of pace and style... it also is sometimes more natural to play since we all are a little egotistic.

Myself I love LE types... they are what makes the world go round and thou I dont love him I would say Osama Bin Laden would be Lawful Evil... he is after all organizer of a big group... it seemed implied he was CE...

Someone said Evil shouldnt distrupt campaings and I would like to agree fully with that... even CE can be played well and socially with mature players.... they wont last long maybe ... but they can exist in a good rpg group. Evil and other colors bring variety and as mentioned in the first post a show of how any realistic world has many types.

It should be mentioned that most extremes are badly played as any CE character or LG Paladin shows... I havent seen many "convincing" Paladins... Evil can be that way too... thou its not the norm.
 

I know what true evil is capable of. I see it in history, I see it reported daily, I read it in books, I hear it in speeches of "cleansing."

This is why I choose not to play it, or emulate it.

P.S. - This issue is not about alignment, so much as it is about actions that predicate it. Let us all here please make the distinction.
 

Lord of Tilverton said:
First off, before I vouch for my friend here I'd like to say that closed-minded DM's IMO kill the game, their 1-road mindset of "Good vs. Evil is how i run "my" game, and if you dont like it, tough", I personally think these ppl should be smacked up a few times. Now with that being said....

Now lets not take this to personal attacks, unless you want to go here . Yeah, that's my attitude. I know what kind of game I am good at running, and I have more people wanting to play than I have chairs at the table. I'm not deinigrating anyone else's style of play, play however you like. I might run a game with a different feel and style to it, where differnet types of characters are apropriate.

Do you argue to have starfighter pilots along with D&D groups? I imagine not. Then why do you want villians to go along with the heroes.
 

I think a lot of people make the mistake of confusing EVIL with INSANE or SOCIOPATH.

Evil does NOT equal psychotic. Depending on your definition; evil may include crazy or psychotic, but it shouldn't necessitate it.

Evil is the used car dealer who set back the odometer on the car he sold you, and said it was once driven by John Voit (NE). Evil is befriending a guy just so you can get closer to his wife. Evil is not paying your taxes. Evil is manipulating other people, achieving your ends by whatever means neccessary with no consideration for others.

Oh sure, you could kill that family in order to get their land. But that would attract uneeded attention from the authorities regarding your plans. It would be much easier on you, and less messy if you kidnapped their youngest son and ransomed him for the land. You sign a nice tidy contract, the land is yours, and you can start implementing your evil plan to take control of the city.

To me evil is corporate america: climbing your way to the top no matter who you have to step on, you lie, cheat, manipulate, whatever it takes.

You take oppurtunities when they present themselves to you. For example, you and your brother may inherret 10 million dollars. To get the bigger share you would never do anything dumb like murder him in cold blood at the workplace, but you may arrange an "accident" on your next ski trip. Think of the Movie "Ghost"

Even serial killers act somewhat normal most of the time, they wouldn't last very long in the world or kill many victims if they weren't sneaky about it and conformed to most of the rules in their day to day lives.

Complete sociopathic behaviour won't get you very far, All but the most chaotic characters are going to have to conform to at least some rules, or they wouldn't last very long.

So total and complete insane sociopaths ARE nearly impossible to make a good game out of, largely because unless they are the most powerful beings around they are going to have their reign stopped really quickly. Conventional evil though, is much easier to fit into a campaign. I daresay many people seem to break the rules and get away scott free.

If crime didn't pay there would not be so many criminals.
 
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First off let me clear sumthin up, Lord of Tilverton is my other screen name at school.

posted by: maddman75 Now lets not take this to personal attacks, unless you want to go here . Yeah, that's my attitude. I know what kind of game I am good at running, and I have more people wanting to play than I have chairs at the table. I'm not deinigrating anyone else's style of play, play however you like. I might run a game with a different feel and style to it, where differnet types of characters are apropriate.

First off, I wasn't gearing that statement to a single person, I simply think(from what I've seen, alot of DM's (on this site) seem to see the game as "their's", and IMO that isn't the case. It takes PC to make the game run, and there ARE alot of closed minded DM's out-there, wheather your one of them or not? I'm not sure. The people I'm talking about are the ones that don't care what the PC's would like to do, if a DM runs a "good" campaign and everyone wants to(or at least wouldn't mind) playing a good character, thats fine, the PC's are having a good time.

But if the group as a whole didn't like the goodie-2-shoes approach, or even 2 players, then the DM should do his best to compensate "in-game" so that the PC's have the freedom to portray any character/alignment they wish. Instead of makeing their "game nights" miserable.

The most common flaw a DM can have is to see his self as the D&D Dictator or even the worse-case scenairio(spelling?) refer to himself as "God" or "God-like".

In short: the PC's are just as important as the DM is, and to try to control their creative freedom isn't being a good DM.

-Kaul Ravinous
 
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There are many different conceptions of evil.

Many say that people can be evil. Others might say animals can be evil. Others yet that weather, hurricanes and droughts are evil. Others that diesease, and cancer is evil.

Many people have very different ideas of what is evil.

Here is one viewpoint on the matter:

There ain’t no sin and there ain’t no virtue. There’s just stuff people do. It’s all part of the same thing. And some of the things people do is nice, and some ain’t so nice, but that’s as far as any man got a right to say.
- spoken by Casy, the preacher, in John Steinbeck’s The Grapes of Wrath, (1939)
 

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