I expect GMs to always exert narrative control to the point of mostly ignoring all rules except those that make players question their suspension of disbelief. For some, minions break that suspension because they're handled so dramatically different in the two realms (table and non-table.)
I understand. The difference doesn't bother me much. Generally speaking, the question of role and minion comes to mind only once combat becomes really a question. For instance, I still haven't decided what role to make the villain of a current campaign arc, although I know he's some sort of winter-sorcerer type. Maybe he'll be a controller, maybe an artillery; probably elite. Doesn't matter yet.
I think most people employ neither a top-down nor a bottom-up decision, but use a series of smaller decisions made from both perspectives.
Which would make sense. And presumably some rules would work very well with one and terribly for another; minions are a stand-out, of course, but there are probably other rules that work well for worldbuilding but less so for table-contact play. (Anything that says "an adventure wouldn't be likely here, as it seems the rules would indicate it was already taken care of/wouldn't come to pass," maybe.)
The reason why so many people have responded to my post is that they seem to think I'm saying that one must stat things out and use the rules instead of GM fiat, whereas what I mean is that the rules one has for the game influence what type of fiat one performs. If you want Hong Kong action fiat, don't use Rolemaster rules, use Feng Shui.
I think it was more the question of whether or not preferring a world that exists outside the PCs tends to incline one toward, say, minion use. I think that your preference for a logical world beyond the table isn't really the criterion. It has more to do with questions like "does the 1 HP rule of a minion apply throughout the creature's lifespan, or only when the character gets into a major dramatic event?"
Minion rules, as you note, don't simulate biological reality for monsters. They tend to be expressions of larger universal "laws" such as the idea that at lower levels a single ogre is a terror, but as you become more and more of a mythological figure, you can hew ogres in half with one shot.
By introducing a minion rule in D&D that has "turned off" a sector of D&D gamers that don't want to fiat a fiction based upon that mechanical construction. Even within the group that accepts the minion concept, there are those that don't like high-level minions because the concept becomes increasing harder to fiat with increasing power levels for them.
Right. And I'll admit that not everything really needs to get to be a minion; I wouldn't make giants minions (even if they tended to get one-shotted in 1e if you had the right magic items). But those are specific applications, and in general I love the rule. It's like a skill challenge; I wouldn't run any of them out of the book as formal as all that, as they're too limiting, but a define-as-you-go skill challenge is delicious.
One of the things I like about minions and skill challenges is that they're a chance to mechanically tinker with pacing. Same for solos and elites, though in the other way. I like that the game has specific rules subsets that allow you to speed up or slow down the action while keeping the players involved. It's a very different approach than D&D has traditionally used, but I find it works great if that's your interest.
The daily was used to make sure I was communicating how minions can result in misplaced application of limited resources. I don't think it would happen very often, but it does show the point.
Sure, but it's not really much of a recurring problem. My personal bugbear is rules that work great once or twice, then become more of a problem as they happen every session. Minions are kind of the inverse of that: they can cause tactical trouble the first time, but provide a smoother experience the more they see play.
No problems. I'm just talking about rules and how they affect design, so I don't have any skin it it to feel dogpiled.
It's just business to me. I'm always trying to identify mechanical effects and consequences with an eye towards design.
Such is my interest as well!
