D&D 5E Why is animate dead considered inherently evil?

[Tolerable Tyrant]

I'm having a troublesome time understanding why the animate dead spell is considered evil. When I read the manual it states that the spall imbues the targeted corpse with a foul mimicry of life, implying that the soul is not a sentient being who is trapped in a decaying corpse. Rather, the spell does exactly what its title suggests, it only animates the corps. Now of course one could use the spell to create zombies that would hunt and kill humans, but by that same coin, they could create a labor force that needs no form of sustenance (other than for the spell to be recast of course). There have also been those who have said "the spell is associated with the negative realm which is evil", however when you ask someone why the negative realm is bad that will say "because it is used for necromancy", I'm sure you can see the fallacy in this argument.

However, I must take into account that I have only looked into the DnD magic system since yesterday so there are likely large gaps in my knowledge. PS(Apon further reflection I've decided that the animate dead spell doesn't fall into the school of necromancy, as life is not truly given to the corps, instead I believe this would most likely fall into the school of transmutation.) PPS(I apologize for my sloppy writing, I've decided I'm feeling too lazy to correct it.)

 

[Voadam]

so if you make a deal with a devil and no real harm is done that should be good?

If you make a deal that is actually good and does no harm or evil that should be considered good and not evil. If you do a deal that does no evil it should not be considered evil.

Devils being evil is a reason to be cautious and wary about making deals with them.

If the deal with the devil is inherently harmful/evil that is a different situation.

There is a cosmology set up to make it clear and easy. you deal with lower planes, evil. You deal with negative energy evil. You muck around with the middle planes shade's of grey you deal with the upper plane's good. I'm having a hard time understanding what problem you are trying to fix and how everything being shades of grey and determined by outcome not intent makes it easier.

Outcome and intent is a different discussion, I think. This is mostly about inherent evil regardless of intent or outcome. Animating undead for good intent and good outcomes causing no harm, good or evil?

Hellboy is a demon good guy choosing to do good and not evil. Teaming up with Hellboy to do good is not evil.

 

[Oofta]

Better not do that then! Yes letting the zombies loose would be evil or at least criminally negligent. So good people take good care of their zombies and safely dispose of them once they are no longer needed.


Fire absolutely has potential to cause massive destruction if used carelessly and is pretty bad for life. A simple campfire left unattended can lead to a forest fire, handling fire carelessly in a city might cause most of the city burn down.

I just don't think we are applying "If used carelessly, or if the operator is disabled might cause serious harm, thus evil" consistently. A lot of stuff is like that, nuclear reactors, aeroplanes, even cars and simple fire.

A basic concept of D&D is that the negative plane is antithetical to positive energy and to life. Fire is just fire, it doesn't seek out life to destroy it, animated dead do unless controlled. Evil needs intelligence behind it, undead have intelligence and fire does not.

But this is going nowhere ... unless there's something new have a good one.

 

[Oofta]

And perhaps the devils had good or at least understandable cause to rise against the gods? This is not exactly a novel though at this point, almost four centuries after Milton. These sort of moral questions are interesting, having alignment provide official stock answers to them is a disservice to the game. Let the people who play the game come up with their own answers.

Are we talking generic core lore or setting specific lore? Because specific settings can and should tweak base assumptions at some point. But you have to have a starting point and generally agreed upon morality as defined by modern western civilization is that starting point so that people have a base understanding of what to expect unless it's specifically changed. Any guidelines or assumptions will always be quite broad, of course but you have to have a foundation to start from.

That goes back to the popularity argument, some assumptions are made because they are the most common assumptions people will make about a generic fantasy world. I think the game has to use some of these core assumptions so that most people can relate to it.

 

[Stormonu]

A basic concept of D&D is that the negative plane is antithetical to positive energy and to life. Fire is just fire, it doesn't seek out life to destroy it, animated dead do unless controlled. Evil needs intelligence behind it, undead have intelligence and fire does not.

But this is going nowhere ... unless there's something new have a good one.

Until you run into Eberron's animated spells....

 

[Oofta]

Until you run into Eberron's animated spells....

I played a bit of Eberron long ago, but I'm not really familiar. Just remember - there are exceptions to every rule. Including this one.

 

[nevin]

Going back all the way to this, I believe this is where it starts. Most cultures respect their dead, several believe that the body needs to be preserved for use in the afterlife or when resurrected for the next life. Some very rare cultures (such as the Charoni from Jakandor) believe in animating their dead (as a work force, no less) and for keeping loved ones around - but this very, very rare.

Further, many undead not only hunt the living, they can make more of their kind - ghouls, wights, wraiths, sons of kyuss, morghs, vampires - just to name a few. Spellcasters (and seasoned adventurers) know the difference between these undead and which can do what, but most common folk don't - and they don't care that they don't. Undead are just a liability and the whether dangerous or not they'd just rather NOT have them around. Even if the spellcaster promises they have the undead under their control, how do you know they really do? And how do you know they don't have plans for your body after your die and are they really willing to let you finish your natural life before they get bored enough to end it for you?

Want a good example of where animation by those in power think its a good idea but the rest of the society thinks it sucks - look at Thay!

So we have come full circle to noting that in Thay it's not considered evil to animate dead. The argument has come full circle.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But you have to have a starting point and generally agreed upon morality as defined by modern western civilization is that starting point so that people have a base understanding of what to expect unless it's specifically changed.

No, you absolutely do not need to have such a thing, and I'd go so far to argue that having such a thing is a disservice. Just describe how things are, people can make up their own minds about good and evil, just like in real life. There is no need for the game designers to forcefeed their outdated moral systems to the players.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

So we have come full circle to noting that in Thay it's not considered evil to animate dead. The argument has come full circle.

Right. And we don't need some canonical answer on whether the Thayans are objectively correct or wrong about this. Providing one will only make things more boring.

 

[nevin]

Right. And we don't need some canonical answer on whether the Thayans are objectively correct or wrong about this. Providing one will only make things more boring.

 

[nevin]

No, you absolutely do not need to have such a thing, and I'd go so far to argue that having such a thing is a disservice. Just describe how things are, people can make up their own minds about good and evil, just like in real life. There is absolutely no need for the game designers to forcefeed their outdated moral systems to the players.All

All systems require points of reference for humans to make sense of them.