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Why is Con so useless?
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 5813001" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>[MENTION=6688047]Number48[/MENTION] </p><p>This is a meaty response to your post, but I just wanted to preface by saying that we both agree that my #2 (engaging an off duty guard in a drinking contest) could get one inside the manor using constitution.</p><p></p><p>Also, I made the assumption that this manor had a courtyard in the manorial style and that the door would lead into the courtyard. If you want to further constrain the scenario of your OP, go for it, my answers were just operating under some assumptions with the generic scenario you framed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, Charisma could work to pretend to be a porter. But once you've got to do the job of carrying a burden for a sustained period of time, you are in the realm of Constitution. Yes, it would be a DM's call if you'd need a Charisma check first, then a Constitution check, but the point is it's an entirely reasonable use of the stat which could potentially gain access.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It seems we agree here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As a DM you'd be within your right to call a Strength check. I would interpret which ability score based on whether the action was about power or about endurance. The way I was thinking of it... it doesn't take a lot of strength to wrap ones legs over a bar in the undercarriage and hold on for dear life, but it would take endurance to stay there for 10 minutes. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I assumed that the manor would have some kind of dungeon and that you'd be taken there after "surrendering", and that the dungeon would be below the manor and have an access point to/from the manor. Clearly you have a different scenario in mind. Maybe you could elucidate?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I saw a group do this with their druid in 3.5e; she summoned a locust swarm and then the tank went in to abduct someone. Not the exact same scenario, but it was a glorious strategy! Why do you say it's ridiculous?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Haha, sure Charisma would fit. It's an old gamer's joke.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, different assumptions. You have a more specific scenario in mind than you originally expressed. I was envisioning a walled manor with a stable on the premises (for the horse), or a kitchen within the manor home itself (for the housecat).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes it is ridiculous! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> There are stories from high-level play of the "air drop" attack, so this is in line with what is possible for high-level PCs in 3e & 4e, even if it is distasteful on a thematic level.</p><p></p><p>You keep saying "it wouldn't open the door", but neither would scaling the wall and going through the window (with Strength or Dexterity). The point is that crashing thru the skylight like Batman (or whatever) circumvents the obstacle and achieves the PCs' goal of entry.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Bluff does you no good if you ingest the iocane powder (which was in both cups all along!). That's Constitution.</p><p></p><p>Though it would certainly be a viable tactic to use Charisma or Dexterity to slip iocane powder into just their drink.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As above, I envisioned a walled manor with gardens and well inside the wall. You're imagining a more specific scenario. But I can only respond to what you post... </p><p></p><p></p><p>What do you mean by a "go-to" stat? What about Wisdom, how is that different from Constitution in your mind?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 5813001, member: 20323"] [MENTION=6688047]Number48[/MENTION] This is a meaty response to your post, but I just wanted to preface by saying that we both agree that my #2 (engaging an off duty guard in a drinking contest) could get one inside the manor using constitution. Also, I made the assumption that this manor had a courtyard in the manorial style and that the door would lead into the courtyard. If you want to further constrain the scenario of your OP, go for it, my answers were just operating under some assumptions with the generic scenario you framed. Sure, Charisma could work to pretend to be a porter. But once you've got to do the job of carrying a burden for a sustained period of time, you are in the realm of Constitution. Yes, it would be a DM's call if you'd need a Charisma check first, then a Constitution check, but the point is it's an entirely reasonable use of the stat which could potentially gain access. It seems we agree here. As a DM you'd be within your right to call a Strength check. I would interpret which ability score based on whether the action was about power or about endurance. The way I was thinking of it... it doesn't take a lot of strength to wrap ones legs over a bar in the undercarriage and hold on for dear life, but it would take endurance to stay there for 10 minutes. I assumed that the manor would have some kind of dungeon and that you'd be taken there after "surrendering", and that the dungeon would be below the manor and have an access point to/from the manor. Clearly you have a different scenario in mind. Maybe you could elucidate? I saw a group do this with their druid in 3.5e; she summoned a locust swarm and then the tank went in to abduct someone. Not the exact same scenario, but it was a glorious strategy! Why do you say it's ridiculous? Haha, sure Charisma would fit. It's an old gamer's joke. Again, different assumptions. You have a more specific scenario in mind than you originally expressed. I was envisioning a walled manor with a stable on the premises (for the horse), or a kitchen within the manor home itself (for the housecat). Yes it is ridiculous! :) There are stories from high-level play of the "air drop" attack, so this is in line with what is possible for high-level PCs in 3e & 4e, even if it is distasteful on a thematic level. You keep saying "it wouldn't open the door", but neither would scaling the wall and going through the window (with Strength or Dexterity). The point is that crashing thru the skylight like Batman (or whatever) circumvents the obstacle and achieves the PCs' goal of entry. Bluff does you no good if you ingest the iocane powder (which was in both cups all along!). That's Constitution. Though it would certainly be a viable tactic to use Charisma or Dexterity to slip iocane powder into just their drink. As above, I envisioned a walled manor with gardens and well inside the wall. You're imagining a more specific scenario. But I can only respond to what you post... What do you mean by a "go-to" stat? What about Wisdom, how is that different from Constitution in your mind? [/QUOTE]
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