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Why is Eberron being pushed so hard?

Nisarg

Banned
Banned
Incenjucar said:
In regards to absolutism, it was -extremely- present after WWI, considering that one of the big reasons for the NAZI movement was a nasty version of Christian absolutist views (the same the Passion plays are meant to push -- Read Chaucer to see how the mindset was in the near 1400s as a result), not at all unlike the excuse we Americans (and, frankly, all conquering peoples) have been using when dabbling in genocide -- divine right. The methods change, but the excuses don't change, to this very day, considering our own president claims to be doing holy work when bombing overseas. Absolutism has lost some power, sure but it's still very very strong. Relativism was almost a fad.

When I was talking about Absolutism, I meant in reference to a paradigm or world-view. There was a complete faith in the institutionalism of western civilization prior to WWI that was just gone after WWI. Fascism, communism, relativism, etc were all reactions to that fundamental loss of confidence.

The US suffered this less than Europe, and this is the cause of many of the basic ideological differences between the two today, but its become an inevitable process of institutional collapse.

Are there still absolutists around? Of course.
Is there an overwhelming society-wide absolute faith in the paradigms of the christian world view, or the "reality" of divine right? Or the correctness of western culture?
No. Those are gone.


Nisarg
 

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Jakar

First Post
I like Eberron because it looks fun and it is full of potential.

Does everything have to be realistic? I have enough realism in my everyday life.
 

Incenjucar

Legend
Nisarg said:
When I was talking about Absolutism, I meant in reference to a paradigm or world-view. There was a complete faith in the institutionalism of western civilization prior to WWI that was just gone after WWI. Fascism, communism, relativism, etc were all reactions to that fundamental loss of confidence.

The US suffered this less than Europe, and this is the cause of many of the basic ideological differences between the two today, but its become an inevitable process of institutional collapse.

Are there still absolutists around? Of course.
Is there an overwhelming society-wide absolute faith in the paradigms of the christian world view, or the "reality" of divine right? Or the correctness of western culture?
No. Those are gone.


Nisarg

I mostly just see it as a shifting from minority/majority opinion to 50/50. It's just that people tended to get killed for disagreeing more often in earlier days.

There's a quote somewhere that said, more or less, the only reason that a 'savage' culture has more polite people than a 'civilized' culture is that people in a 'savage' culture are much more likely to get an axe in the face if they insult someone.

Same goes for protesters. WW2 largely just made people much more wary about tyranny, rather than accepting of it, and made those who are tyrants feel bad enough to give the tyrannized a bit of leeway once in awhile.
 

WizarDru

Adventurer
Jakar said:
I like Eberron because it looks fun and it is full of potential.

Does everything have to be realistic? I have enough realism in my everyday life.
Fun? What is this 'Fun' you speak of Earth-man?
Does it have something to do with the D&D of which you speak?:)
 
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MoogleEmpMog

First Post
Incenjucar said:
In regards to absolutism, it was -extremely- present after WWI, considering that one of the big reasons for the NAZI movement was a nasty version of Christian absolutist views (the same the Passion plays are meant to push -- Read Chaucer to see how the mindset was in the near 1400s as a result), not at all unlike the excuse we Americans (and, frankly, all conquering peoples) have been using when dabbling in genocide -- divine right. The methods change, but the excuses don't change, to this very day, considering our own president claims to be doing holy work when bombing overseas. Absolutism has lost some power, sure but it's still very very strong. Relativism was almost a fad.

Totally wrong, aside from saying that relativism was almost a fad.

National Socialism is an intensely secular ideology based in ethnic nationalism (a concept whose modern form basically owes its beginnings to pre-WW1 Serbia), the eugenics movement (popular all over Europe and the US prior to WW1), and, at least in its public form, Wagnerian neo-paganism (a 19th-century German development). It's equally hostile to practicing Jews, secular Jews, Jews converted to Christianity, etc. It's also hostile to practicing members of any other religion, as are all virulently secular ideologies (communism, secular humanism, etc.).

Anti-Jewish sentiment in the middle ages and persisting in some regions up through the 20th century was almost completely religious. Jews who converted were, by and large, embraced and welcomed into mainstream society; in Czarist Russia, the last major country to maintain popular religiously-grounded hostility to the Jews, Jewish converts to Christianity sometimes held high positions and no one thought twice of it.

The only connections between ethnic anti-Semitism (the sole element of statist, modernist secular Nazism that could be linked in any way to the 14th century) and religious anti-Judaism is that they both negatively impact Jews, and they both have an undercurrent of class warfare.

The present US position has nothing to do with either. It has everything to do with Wilsionian evangelical democracy, which, in the Christian Progressive tradition of which Wilson was a peripheral part, makes extensive use of religious imagery while, in actuality, promoting Enlightenment political thought through diplomacy and force of arms. Essentially, it's a function of rhetoric. That's not to say that Presidents Bush and Wilson are/were not truly religious men - only that their use of religious imagery in public speaking is more Progressive than Christian.

Most conquering peoples, an oft-honorable title for which neither medieval Europeans nor modern Americans qualify, did not use the kind of ideological justifications seen in the 20th century. Conquest was not seen as evil prior to the 19th century at the earliest, when, in opposing the conquering Napoleon, the major powers found it prudent to decry conquest itself. When, Napoleon defeated, they wanted to return to their own conquests (19th-century England being itself a successful conquering nation), they found ideological justification more comforting than taking back what they'd said of the French Emperor. The presumption against conflict almost universally shared by modern 1st-world peoples is also a fad and an aberration - neither Saladin nor Richard would understand it, Caesar and Nobunaga certainly wouldn't, and Alexander would laugh in your face if you presented it to him.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
Jakar said:
I like Eberron because it looks fun and it is full of potential.

Does everything have to be realistic? I have enough realism in my everyday life.

We're gamers - fun comes in some really weird shades of color, whether it's hacking Emerald Claw cultists apart to save the day, or discussing absolutist paradigms among general populace in post-WWI western culture and its relation to EBerronian Khorvairian societal development. :D
 

Drifter Bob

First Post
MoogleEmpMog said:
The only connections between ethnic anti-Semitism (snip) and religious anti-Judaism is that they both negatively impact Jews, and they both have an undercurrent of class warfare.

I've seen some imbecilic statements in these boards, but this takes the cake.

Also, isn't this both religious and political?

DB
 

Incenjucar

Legend
Drifter Bob said:
I've seen some imbecilic statements in these boards, but this takes the cake.

Also, isn't this both religious and political?

DB

Indeed, Bob.

My point was simply that the absolutist mindset hasn't gone anywhere, it's just that it's currently having to deal with upstart concepts. You can very easily have a culture that never gets in on the faddish notion that someone born somewhere has any rights if their neighbor can beat the tar out of them.

Anyways, Eberron's claim to medieval-ness is mostly that they still use swords and bows rather than mechamobiles and plasma rifles and horse-drawn carts still exist in fair numbers.

A better term is "while magictech exists, technology itself is no more advanced than in default D&D".

But that's not nearly as much of a buzzword.
 

MoogleEmpMog

First Post
Drifter Bob said:
I've seen some imbecilic statements in these boards, but this takes the cake.

Also, isn't this both religious and political?

DB

Yes, it's both religious and political, which makes sense seeing as it came in response to an erroneous post regarding the religious background of a political ideology. ;)

As for it being imbecilic... well, you're welcome to your opinion, but I'm certainly not following what, exactly, it is.

Do you believe there's a tighter ideological connection between the two? Or do you consider the end-result connection strong enough to override the idealogical differences?

(All of this is far off-topic, but I'm very curious what you're getting at)

Of course, unlike the general discussion of post-WW1 ideologies in Europe and abroad, this doesn't really have anything to do with Eberron... unless the Lord of Blades started a, say, anti-Dragonmarked House movement in constructs and organics alike.

I can see the LoB appealing more to the unwashed peasant in Breland or the common laborer in Sharn more than "those snooty 'Marked SoBs thinkin' their better than everybody else because they're different... I'll bet they're scheming to bring down our beloved (insert country here), ever since they stopped us from winning the Last War!"

Although, the Blood of Vol or some other organization might be more appropriate for *that* kind of Eberron "Nazis"...
 

fanboy2000

Adventurer
MoogleEmpMog said:
Yes, it's both religious and political, which makes sense seeing as it came in response to an erroneous post regarding the religious background of a political ideology. ;)

As for it being imbecilic... well, you're welcome to your opinion, but I'm certainly not following what, exactly, it is.

Do you believe there's a tighter ideological connection between the two? Or do you consider the end-result connection strong enough to override the idealogical differences?

(All of this is far off-topic, but I'm very curious what you're getting at)

Off topic? Nah, we're just discussing the real-world implications of, ummmm, stuff. ;) <----- I love this smiley.

Of course, unlike the general discussion of post-WW1 ideologies in Europe and abroad, this doesn't really have anything to do with Eberron...

What do you mean!? It has everything to do with this thread (well, everyting to do with it sence it's been highjacked)

unless the Lord of Blades started a, say, anti-Dragonmarked House movement in constructs and organics alike.

I can see the LoB appealing more to the unwashed peasant in Breland or the common laborer in Sharn more than "those snooty 'Marked SoBs thinkin' their better than everybody else because they're different... I'll bet they're scheming to bring down our beloved (insert country here), ever since they stopped us from winning the Last War!"

Although, the Blood of Vol or some other organization might be more appropriate for *that* kind of Eberron "Nazis"...

You know, you may be on to something.

Or, possibly, on something ;)

Man I love that smiley.

I should ignore this thread. Really, haven't we (well, I. Because I'm ego-centric.) hashed this out enough? Nahhhhh....
 

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