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Why is Eberron being pushed so hard?

Mythtify

First Post
Isnt it time to close this thread? It's been awfully full of real world politics and religion for a while now. I though it was supposed to be about WoTC pushing Eberron. Which, I don't think that they are going to have to push very hard. It is good enough to sell itself. I hope it continues for a long time.
 

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fanboy2000

Adventurer
Wow, this thread is really long!

MoogleEmpMog said:
I'm trolling? :uhoh:

Not really. I might be trolling, you're just bringing up politics and religion. Not the same thing.

Snip politics and religion, going straight to the point:

And BTW... this thread is really long, huh? ;)

You know, that's about the smartest thing any us intellectuals have said. ;)

My Girlfriend said:
I therefore say "Wow, that is a very long thread".

She dosen't have an account.
 

WizarDru

Adventurer
Canis said:
Sure there a few things you can say about their outlook, but think about this: No Dwarf, Ever, has been afraid of the dark. That sounds silly and trivial, but think about the reams of mythology, literature, nursery rhymes, and even therapy sessions built around dealing with fear of the dark. That's going to be a big, fat psychological difference. D&D doesn't address this in the slightest. Critters that have fear effects because of their "dark" nature are preying on a primal fear humans have, yet you never see "Dwarves are immune to this effect because they have no innate fear of the dark."
I don't buy that argument for a second. Being able to see in the dark for 60' does not equate not being afraid of the dark. You could just as easily argue that being able to see in the dark makes utter darkness even more terrifying to a dwarf. If you've ALWAYS been able to see in the dark, and then suddenly you can't, that might be one of the most horrifying things, ever. Fear of the dark is fear of the unknown. My children have night-lights...but they're still afraid of what they can't see beyond the limit of that light. The same would hold true of some dwarves, and dwarven children especially. Unlike above-worlders, Dwarves have to learn to adapt to the fact that, outside of torch or lantern-light, they cannot see nearly as far as above-worlders can...and there are creatures in the deep that don't need to see at all.

I mean, at best Dwarves exchange one set of phobias for another. Consider how terrifying unidentifiable noises are, or random earth tremors. Was that a thoqqua? Will it burst through the wall and come get me? Could it be an umber hulk or a xorn, moving silently through the walls??? AAAHHHH! :)

Either direction works. The fact is, that every race in D&D are essentially humans in funny bodies...since the last time I checked, only humans were playing them. Alien outlooks are highly overrated. :D
 

Numion

First Post
Mouseferatu said:
Thus, dwarves are not frightened by darkness--but, a dwarf would be driven to an absolute hysterical panic by a darkness spell, because it's a completely foreign experience.

...not unlike closing ones eyes :p
 




Mouseferatu said:
Wow. That's one of the coolest concepts I've heard in a long time.
Thanks! :) It was just a passing thought. Let's see if it holds up to scrutiny...

WizarDru said:
I don't buy that argument for a second. Being able to see in the dark for 60' does not equate not being afraid of the dark. You could just as easily argue that being able to see in the dark makes utter darkness even more terrifying to a dwarf. If you've ALWAYS been able to see in the dark, and then suddenly you can't, that might be one of the most horrifying things, ever.

As Mouseferatu pointed out, magical darkness (as per the spell) would likely be truly horrifying, as it would be outside Dwarven experience, but mundane darkness or the simple dimming of illumination wouldn't affect a Dwarf at all.

btw, 60 ft is at the very edge of actionable distance for anyone but superb athletes. Heck, even with a bow the average person can't consistently affect things 60 ft away. We use different depth cues for things at little more than that distance. 60 ft is a LONG way. Further, you're thinking of it as a limitation because you can often see further than this. Dwarves never do in their mountains. When they are at home in their cities and mines in the mountain, they NEVER see more than 60 ft. This is not going to bother them. It's like you getting upset that you can't consciously smell pheromones. You NEVER HAVE, so you have no frame of reference.

Really, the 60 ft thing is very silly. There's just an impenetrable curtain at 60 ft?! If you're explaining it as Infravision, then a tight range limit makes some sense, though you'd be able to see strong heat sources from substantially further away. You wouldn't necessarily be able to identify them, but you'd know SOMETHING was there. (God, Infravision was a pain). Darkvision simply doesn't have any science to fall back on and must be magic. For game balance reasons, their vision just stops at 60 ft. That's idiotic. Does your vision just STOP at a certain point? Of course not. It's sharp to a certain distance and acuity breaks down after that. The curvature of the earth limits your vision more than any properties of light or your eyes. If Darkvision relied upon even pseudo-science, it would do the same thing.

Hey physicists! What's a ubiquitous sub-atomic particle that would be bouncing around like light does, but everywhere, even underground? Preferably something that moves nearly as fast, but has a limited range. (Yes, I know, probably doesn't exist) But, if we could base Darkvision on something like that, we could treat Dwarves as simply being near-sighted and color-blind in the dark. And magical Darkness would be stopping the motion of said particles. Which, unfortunately, really starts to push magic into the science realm, and then how many midi-chlorians your 10th level wizard has gets to be an issue.

But that's beside the point. We're supposed to be talking about the marketing of Eberron, after all. And midi-chlorians and the adjudication of Darkvision are pretty far afield, don't you think?

Fear of the dark is fear of the unknown.
But for Dwarves, the darkness is NOT unknown. To the limit of their vision (however arbitrary that may be) they can see. Their fear of the unknown would be tied to something else entirely. I would guess silence. Let's say you're a Dwarf. You've lived in an echo-ey mountain all your life, constantly filled with the noise of busy, working Dwarves, as well as falling water, etc. Shut all that off with a Silence spell. Probably would drive you buggy.

Hey, I think I defended that reasonably well. There might be something to it :)

Mouseferatu said:
Geez. I'm already thinking of dwarves in a way I never have before. I would love to see a book that dwelt with all the major races on a cultural/psychological/societal level, taking this sort of thing into account. I don't know if it would sell, but I'd sure as hell be willing to buy it. (Or even write parts of it.)
That might actually be fun. I've got the bio and some of the psych background. No experience writing gaming supplements, though. Heck, I've only ever written 2 adventures. Still, it could be fun. I might even put that on the burner to toy with after I get the paper I'm supposed to be writing right now out the door. I haven't written anything but journal articles in months. This could make for some nice drunken discussion with my colleagues in the psych department. :D

EDIT: poor spelling
 
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Canis said:
That might actually be fun. I've got the bio and some of the psych background. No experience writing gaming supplements, though. Heck, I've only ever written 2 adventures. Still, it could be fun. I might even put that on the burner to toy with after I get the paper I'm supposed to be writing right now out the door. I haven't written anything but journal articles in months. This could make for some nice drunken discussion with my colleagues in the psych department. :D

If I ever find an interested publisher, you're first on my list to call. :)
 

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