Why is Eberron being pushed so hard?

[Nisarg]

I'm about to be called out on this, most likely, so if you would like to avoid a public thrashing, feel free to email me at:

jasamcarl@hotmail.com

Oh and have a nice day.

I'm not going to "call you out" on this, or flame you or whatever you think I'd do. I'll just say that the whole "dragonmark" business is probably what I find the most distasteful and least sophisticated part of the entire Eberron setting (except for maybe the Warforged Juggernaut).

Far from being "clever", its clearly an attempt (a misguided one, if you ask me, and my reasons being made clear in the mini-review I gave earlier in this thread) to appeal to the Exalted-fanboys out there.

But particularly to equate the "kewl powerz" of being dragonblooded to some kind of "economic" element in the game is a bit absurd to me. When someone first said (might have been you) that Eberron was the first D&D setting to actually tie in economics to gameplay I opened my copy and paged desperately through it hoping there were some sophisticated rules on the economics of nations that I'd somehow overlooked on my first read. I would NEVER have thought the poster was talking about the "dragonmark powerz". To say that they are an "economic" mechanic with a straight face is absurd.

They're just another element of power-creep with a supposedly cool backstory, really just a cheap justification.

Nisarg

 

[jasamcarl]

I'm not going to "call you out" on this, or flame you or whatever you think I'd do. I'll just say that the whole "dragonmark" business is probably what I find the most distasteful and least sophisticated part of the entire Eberron setting (except for maybe the Warforged Juggernaut).

Far from being "clever", its clearly an attempt (a misguided one, if you ask me, and my reasons being made clear in the mini-review I gave earlier in this thread) to appeal to the Exalted-fanboys out there.

But particularly to equate the "kewl powerz" of being dragonblooded to some kind of "economic" element in the game is a bit absurd to me. When someone first said (might have been you) that Eberron was the first D&D setting to actually tie in economics to gameplay I opened my copy and paged desperately through it hoping there were some sophisticated rules on the economics of nations that I'd somehow overlooked on my first read. I would NEVER have thought the poster was talking about the "dragonmark powerz". To say that they are an "economic" mechanic with a straight face is absurd.

They're just another element of power-creep with a supposedly cool backstory, really just a cheap justification.

Nisarg

1) Dragonmarks aren't particularly powerful, especially when they come at the cost of a feat. You seem so lazy on the powergamer point that you paint all new mechanics with a broad brush. The greater mark of creation might be a problem, but otherwise their use is either solely in utility or, in combat, comes at the expense of using much more potent class abilities.

2) He never said there was an economic mechanic, but that there was a mechanic that tied into the economics of the game. You immediatly jumped to a conclusion that can only illuminate your ignorance of the setting, i.e. that there had to be an economic mechanic, because...well i suppose you just like putting words together in nonsensical ways. You infact took the most hamhanded definition of "tie" I could possibly of imagined.

Oh, and by called out, I was alluding to the moderators. I wouldn't mind having it out with you right here if given the choice.

 

[reanjr]

I then recently heard that thier is a new D&D MMORPG coming out and it's set in Eberron. What? Why?

To create synergy while minimizing R&D costs and grant an opportunity to create an additional flagship franchise.

I imagine that's about how it was said to the people at Hasbro.

 

[Mouseferatu]

1) Dragonmarks aren't particularly powerful, especially when they come at the cost of a feat. You seem so lazy on the powergamer point that you paint all new mechanics with a broad brush. The greater mark of creation might be a problem, but otherwise their use is either solely in utility or, in combat, comes at the expense of using much more potent class abilities.

I have to agree with you (even if I might have used more diplomatic language ). Between a clear misundersatnding of what the Dargonmarks are/can do, and his constant comparison to Exalted and Rifts--neither of which resembles Eberron in any meaningful way, as far as I can tell--I have to wonder if Nisarg's actually read the book, or just flipped through it.

Dragonmarks are the last route a powergamer's going to take.

I'm also getting a little tired of the constant Final Fantasy/Playstation cracks. I'm neither a teen nor a newbie to D&D. I run my games plot first and mechanics a very distant second. I don't like "power-ups." I'm not normally a fan of pervasive-magic settings. I don't particularly like Final Fantasy. I don't particularly like Chrono Trigger. I haven't owned a game console since my Atari 2600.

And I see in Eberron an incredible amount of story potential and room for character development. I see it as much less abusable, in terms of power-gaming, than many other settings out there.

I'm all about discussing differences of opinion with people who disagree with me. Heck, you'll find several threads where BryonD and I go back and forth on several issues about Eberron. But he appears to have actually read the material, and he's not drawing utterly ludicrous--and patently false--conclusions, so I'm happy to debate with him. But if you're just going to sling nonsense, there's hardly a point.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Oh, and it has psionics. I hate psionics. Also, how stupid is that? Taking the new "flagship" setting for D&D and basically forcing anyone who wants to play in it to have to get the psionics handbook? way to be accessible.

Wow, actual stupidity burning bright and clear.

In fact, while the setting includes psionics, they were deliberately and explicitly located in a different, remote area of the campaign world - on Sarlona, a different continent to both the main setting location of Khorvaire and the main "unexplored wilderness" continent of Xen'drik - specifically so that people with no interest in psionics could ignore its existence in the world completely.

To say nothing of the obvious fact that nothing in the campaign setting actually has to be in the world.

Besides which, I suggest you look at the System Reference Document, where you will find the contents of the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

 

[DarkCrisis]

I think the MMORPG thing is what bugs ne the most. That's a hard market to succeed in. Now, D&D I would think would be anatural to to make a MMORPG, even more so if it was set in an established and mega-popular world.

As I said I was thinking about paying it cause I thought it would be set in Faerun, but no it's set in the New Game.

Why?

Seems really risky to me.

Could have been less of a risk to just use the already huge Faerun. Man, I;d have loved visiting Menzo in beautiful 3D!!

 

[reanjr]

I think the MMORPG thing is what bugs ne the most. That's a hard market to succeed in. Now, D&D I would think would be anatural to to make a MMORPG, even more so if it was set in an established and mega-popular world.

As I said I was thinking about paying it cause I thought it would be set in Faerun, but no it's set in the New Game.

Why?

Seems really risky to me.

Could have been less of a risk to just use the already huge Faerun. Man, I;d have loved visiting Menzo in beautiful 3D!!

Faerun's too established for an MMORPG. The content designers have to have alot of control over where the world is going. They can't have that with FR, but if they come in early enough, they might be able to do it with Eberron. From what I remember, it was the Game Company's idea to use Eberron.

 

[Tolen Mar]

I'm also getting a little tired of the constant Final Fantasy/Playstation cracks. I'm neither a teen nor a newbie to D&D. I run my games plot first and mechanics a very distant second. I don't like "power-ups." I'm not normally a fan of pervasive-magic settings. I don't particularly like Final Fantasy. I don't particularly like Chrono Trigger. I haven't owned a game console since my Atari 2600.

And I see in Eberron an incredible amount of story potential and room for character development. I see it as much less abusable, in terms of power-gaming, than many other settings out there.

Hear! Hear!

That describes me to a 'T'. (Right down to the 2600 remark). See, some of us are buying and using this setting because it is different without being video gamey. This isn't Rifts, this isn't Final Fantasy. It is a world full of potential, interesting ideas, and cool locations.

psst...lemme tell you a secret...Not everyone is a munchkin powergamer! So what if there are warforged Juggernauts? Use 'em as monsters only. The Dm does have some control over his world, doesn't he? If all you have is munchkin powergamers in your group AND YOU DON"T LIKE IT, find a different group, or find a different hobby.

You dont like psionics? Dont use 'em. Everything in the book that says you need psionics to use also includes a short description of how to get by without the book.

If you don't like it, why are you spending so much time ripping on it? Here's another secret...go play something else if its that big of a deal. As I thought I made clear before...I'm not 14 and I like this book. Like Henry, Im in my 30's and I got it because I wanted something besides the standard 'classic' fantasy that nearly every game out there (including Realms and Greyhawk) has been using for years.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I think the MMORPG thing is what bugs ne the most. That's a hard market to succeed in. Now, D&D I would think would be anatural to to make a MMORPG, even more so if it was set in an established and mega-popular world.

As I said I was thinking about paying it cause I thought it would be set in Faerun, but no it's set in the New Game.

Why?

Seems really risky to me.

Essentially for one very simple reason:

No-one knows what is there, so the designers are free to write the world as they want and as their technology dictates.

That's why the MMORPG will be set in Xen'drik, the largely-unexplored continent. Since there's no real canon concerning that area, there's nothing for them to "get wrong".

Which they most certainly would, and would get complaints about, if they had set the game in Faerun.

 

[Incenjucar]

Always fun watching people get mad and insulting because someone doesn't like what they like, and views it as being related to something else.

I've got different tastes. I like my settings to be artful, as I feel Planescape was. Since I don't have ready access to that sort of setting, I'm just making my own, and hopefully will make some money on it. What D&D still offers that I like, I still purchase -- I greatly enjoyed Serpent Kingdoms, for instance.

What I like is not what most young gamers like. I'm an oddball. I consider a science book more engrossing than an issue of Playboy. I consider other languages fun to play with, rather than a chore put upon me by the school system. I prefer fine, delicate flavors to spicy bold ones. I prefer something I can bask and ponder quietly about rather than go "Ye-ah! Rocked it! Booyah!".

I'd love it if there was a setting or twelve designed with tastes along the lines of my own, that I could peruse and have all too many to choose from. But since I'm increasingly in the minority, there's very little that the gaming community has to offer me right now.

And no, I'm not supporting -your- setting just to have to twist it around. I can homebrew and keep my money if nobody out there wants my money badly enough to make something I actually want. It's really a bit odd to tell someone to use a setting they don't like. I, for one, don't settle.