• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

Why is "I don't like it" not good enough?

Status
Not open for further replies.
You're never on a slippery slope for seriously considering a player's ideas for a campaign even if they run against your initial preconceptions and preferences as DM.

:lol:

Considering some ideas might push you right over that slippery slope and into the bowels of madness.

Or have I finally found the GM willing to run games for my half-dragon teletubby jedi/paladin whose special mount is a motorcycle transformer?

:lol:


RC
 

log in or register to remove this ad

:lol:

Considering some ideas might push you right over that slippery slope and into the bowels of madness.

Or have I finally found the GM willing to run games for my half-dragon teletubby jedi/paladin whose special mount is a motorcycle transformer?

:lol:

RC

You never know, maybe the DM secretly dreams of running for such a character and is just waiting for someone bold enough to ask him.

Then again, maybe not.
 

Or have I finally found the GM willing to run games for my half-dragon teletubby jedi/paladin whose special mount is a motorcycle transformer?
He would almost fit in my group's Port on the Aster Sea/On the Shores of an Infinite Ocean campaign!

From the description he's not quite... transgressive enough. Oh, and we do shy away from using explicit brand names like "Teletubby".
 

Or it becomes a constant distraction as the game turns into one encounter after another of, "What the :):):):) is that thing?!"

One man's interesting questions are another man's nails on a chalkboard.

You made me wish I hadn't XP'd you the last time, whatever that was, because I really wanted to XP that. :cool: I must spread some around ...

You guys remember the DJ character on Northern Exposure? I think the character's name was Chris, and was played by John Corbett, but that could be completely off. Anyway, they had that character written to try to sound profound in everything he said. I think some people thought he was profound, in kind of a "shallow zen" manner. (That is, not that zen is shallow, but that he was playing at zen.) I was never quite sure if the writers were writing him seriously or as satire. Because I found it profoundly shallow. :)

A lot of ideas that come across as nails on the chalkboard remind me of that character.
 
Last edited:

:lol:

Considering some ideas might push you right over that slippery slope and into the bowels of madness.

Or have I finally found the GM willing to run games for my half-dragon teletubby jedi/paladin whose special mount is a motorcycle transformer?

I would consider your suggestion and then tell you that playing a fat half dragon child with a spike on top of his head and speech impediments is fine, having some weird repetitive and uncontrolled clairvoyant tendencies would be OK as long as we're clear they're under DM control (as the teletubbies' abilities are out of their own control), but television monitors and internal combustion engines are not part of the campaign world. Shapechanging robotic mounts are also not appropriate because they'd be pretty far out of balance.

As far as playing a jedi, the psionics handbook has some elements that come reasonably close to Jedi abilities and I would consider including that, though as a paladin, he'd have to multiclass which may hamper his development in either of the two main class's powers.

Frankly, that's not that hard.
 

I think Bill91 has the right of it though. He's taken an obviously extreme example and shown exactly how a DM can build that into the campaign world.

As far as slippery slope goes, I have zero problem with saying no to some players and saying yes to others for exactly the same request. Some players are asking for stuff in order to "win" the game. We've probably all played with that guy at one point or another. Heck, I'm pretty sure I've BEEN that guy at one point or another. :D

OTOH, I have some fantastic players right now, so, the default answer for any request is generally "yes" unless I have some very specific reason for saying no. Even requests that I personally don't like and probably would never play have resulted in fantastic characters and a real improvement in my game. So, based on that, when the players ask me for something that isn't quite what I had in mind for the game, my answer is going to be entirely based on what's gone on before.
 

"IT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME, NOT THE LETTER OF THE RULES, WHICH IS IMPORTANT. NEVER HOLD TO THE LETTER WRITTEN, NOR ALLOW SOME BARRACKS ROOM LAWYER TO FORCE QUTATIONS FROM THE RULE BOOK UPON YOU, IF IT GOES AGAINST THE OBVIOUS INTENT OF THE GAME. AS YOU HEW THE LINE WITH RESPECT TO CONFORMITY TO MAJOR SYSTEMS AND UNIFORMITY OF PLAY IN GENERAL, ALSO BE CERTAIN THAT THE GAME IS MASTERED BY YOU AND NOT BY YOUR PLAYERS. WITHIN THE BROAD PARAMETERS GIVEN IN THE ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS VOLUMES, YOU ARE CREATOR AND FINAL ARBITER. BY ORDERING THINGS AS THEY SHOULD BE, THE GAME AS A WHOLE FIRST, YOUR CAMPAIGN NET, AND YOUR PARTICIPANTS THEREAFTER, YOU WILL BE PLAYING ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE. MAY YOU FIND AS MUCH PLEASURE IN DOING SO AS THE REST OF US DO!" - E. Gary Gygax

-when in doubt, I usually go with that.

I go with it when not in doubt. Borrowing your work typing it I highlight some thing some people may not be seeing, amy have forgotten, or may not understand that many/some of us may adhere to for the sake of the game. Since many DMs do it for the game first, not the people. (serious vs social or whatever you call it)

The DM is told, and rightfully so to be the master of the game, the one running it, the one in charge, because there is their main role. To make the game work. Like many governments are given power to make decisions for a vastly large number of people, so is the DM tasked to make decisions that would keep its games people in the proper state of affairs. IE: Having a fun game to play.

The next bolded part from the DMG continues that. The DM should be offering the world to the players and making sure it works. Some it seems want to hand some of the game mastering to the players in the middle of play, while other DMs just don't work like that, as the DM choose to in his arbitration. Other DMs prefer to hand part of the creation to players before the game has begun such as what parts will or won't come into play, and then those DMs handle full arbitration after the game has started.

Which brings to a confusing last part:

  1. game as a whole
  2. the game you have designed to run as a campaign
  3. your players

#1 encompasses the other two, but ensures that both get taken care of. But it also prevents ANY player from becoming the "problem player" for any reason on purpose or accidental so that the game for all works. The prime job of the DM is to make the game work for all, or when it arises, for the majority as you can't always please everyone.

You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time.​

Trekkie version:*
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.​

#2 The game must function, so it comes second. If the game doesn't function then there is nothing for the players to play. The DM can only make things function that they can make work. Alignment languages don't work, the do not use them. Even if a player wants them so badly because they sound cool, or all players want them; the DM must be able to make the thing work so the game works.

#3 After the game is made to where it will work for the DM task to run the machine, then consider what the actual and individual players will want, so long as it doesn't interfere with part 1.*

*Note: This note connects to both marked places, as it deals with the DM as a player and being only one player. While it isn't the DMs needs that are coming into play being his job to make the game work means that his ability to make something function cannot impede the first part, as he will never be impeding himself. Likewise individual player wants may conflict with each other, but the DM has to be able to prevent them from impeding the game as a whole. So When the DM acts in a manner towards part 1, the needs for THAT one, are for the sake of the many. To make sure the game works for all.​

Part 2 is unlikely to interfere with part 1, and when it does, you may need to see if the correct DM is had for you, because of playstyle conflicts or other innocuous reasons, as not always does everyone fit with every game or gamer.

Otherwise it might just be a "bad DM" such as one that hasn't grown yet into the role and is still learning. Everyone starts out as a "bad DM", but some get better while others do not.

So all in all, what this is saying is about how the DM is tasked with doing things that may not always be clear, but is for the sake of everyone playing, no matter who they are from spouse, SO, best friend, total stranger, and even someone they may not really like that much outside of the game.

A DM DMs for the love of the game and making sure others can enjoy the game that DM is running. When that happens, the DM can enjoy the game just as much as the players.

This is what I have taken from that passage, adding to it years of DMing.

(Hope I got all the thoughts in and made clear while eating at the same time as making this post.)
I think Bill91 has the right of it though. He's taken an obviously extreme example and shown exactly how a DM can build that into the campaign world.

Only so long as the DM is willing and interested in running said creation and adding it to the world. If they are not, then it will show in the treatment of that creation. But again could lead to the "non special", where everyone then wants to try some special creation that could run the DM into the ground and lose interest. Then someone else will have to run it and you lose a player either way in the long run.

If you have but one able to DM, which is the greater loss: the player with his special character, or the game itself with no one to run it?

I think maybe looking at a new thread for a broader view that just a singular player might be helpful, but would there be any discussion about a DM willing and interested in playing one type of game, while ALL the players are looking for something else. I doubt so, as the simplest answer is that DM wouldn't be running the game for that group of players.

What would be interesting is to find out how those players work in the game that many are speaking of communication and consideration about. Do the players in these games always work as a team and appoint a player to tell the DM what the group is doing in whole or parts (party leader/delegate), or do those players not communicate and consider the other players when in game and just act and do things on their own?
 
Last edited:

[MENTION=6667746]shadzar[/MENTION]

To me, you always sound like you´re creating your stuff in a total vacuum without any feedback or imput, then the game starts and those stupid players ruin it with their insolent questions and preferences.
 

"IT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME, NOT THE LETTER OF THE RULES, WHICH IS IMPORTANT. NEVER HOLD TO THE LETTER WRITTEN, NOR ALLOW SOME BARRACKS ROOM LAWYER TO FORCE QUTATIONS FROM THE RULE BOOK UPON YOU, IF IT GOES AGAINST THE OBVIOUS INTENT OF THE GAME. AS YOU HEW THE LINE WITH RESPECT TO CONFORMITY TO MAJOR SYSTEMS AND UNIFORMITY OF PLAY IN GENERAL, ALSO BE CERTAIN THAT THE GAME IS MASTERED BY YOU AND NOT BY YOUR PLAYERS. WITHIN THE BROAD PARAMETERS GIVEN IN THE ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS VOLUMES, YOU ARE CREATOR AND FINAL ARBITER. BY ORDERING THINGS AS THEY SHOULD BE, THE GAME AS A WHOLE FIRST, YOUR CAMPAIGN NET, AND YOUR PARTICIPANTS THEREAFTER, YOU WILL BE PLAYING ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE. MAY YOU FIND AS MUCH PLEASURE IN DOING SO AS THE REST OF US DO!" - E. Gary Gygax

-when in doubt, I usually go with that.

While I think AD&D is a fine game, I do not agree 100% with what was quoted above.

D&D is a TTRPG played with people. Therefore to me, the people are the most important aspect of the game seeing as there is no game without them.

Anyone I sit down to play a game with is worthy of being considered more important than the system or the campaign being run. If I do not deem this to be the case then the people are not worth playing with in the first place.

The order of game, campaign, people seems more appropriate to a game such as WOW.

This doesn't mean that every game must be an anything goes as long as the player is happy type thing.

IME the type of players who never want to play anything that isn't wildly outside the scope of a proposed campaign and never seem to be happy with any available options are ones that are more concerned with pooping on someone elses good time than having fun themselves. This type also never seems to want to run a game either.

It might seem harsh but such players are better off excluded from the game.
 

D&D is a TTRPG played with people. Therefore to me, the people are the most important aspect of the game seeing as there is no game without them.

Anyone I sit down to play a game with is worthy of being considered more important than the system or the campaign being run. If I do not deem this to be the case then the people are not worth playing with in the first place.
Same here. Monday night is game night. If the current DM can't make it, then we'll still get together and play a boardgame, or watch a movie instead. Spending Monday night with my gamer friends > the game.

P.S. and now I've just lost The Game. And so have you.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top